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It has been the custom of believers, for thousands of years, to provide
a Biblical reason for disagreeing with a doctrine... otherwise you are only
expressing your personal "feelings" on the matter - and a man's "feelings"
can never establish truth/reality.
If you have some Biblical validation for your comment above - please provide chapter and verse.
Otherwise I will assume you are only expressing your "feelings" and give your comment
no consideration whatsoever.
Seriously, why is being homosexual any more 'a sin' than being heterosexual?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise Virgin
Homosexuality is a sin because the Bible says so.
Heterosexual is not a sin.
Oh my, we're back to square one. The terms 'heterosexual' and 'homosexual' are found nowhere in scripture. And, even the slightest hint that the Bible authors recognized or were aware that 'sexual orientations' existed among human beings is not found in the Bible. These people had NO concept of 'straight' or 'gay'. They only knew that people were either male and female and performed specific roles. HOWEVER, "God" as "Creator" would, presumably, be aware that some of His creations are born 'gay' and others of His creations are born 'straight'. THEREFORE, it's clear that "God" had nothing to do with the writings of ignorant human authors. These Bible authors DID NOT KNOW THESE THINGS BUT "God" WOULD HAVE KNOWN!
Truth is determined by harmony of Scripture.
False wisdom (like you comment above) contradicts harmony of Scripture.
The only measure of Truth is harmony of Scripture... this is Christian theology 101.
Any "knowledge" that does not harmonize with ALL SCRIPTURE (like your comment above)
is already proven to be untrue. Again, this is Christian theology 101.
"harmony of scripture is as much a laughable inanity as "systematic theology." The HOOPS theologians have to negotiate to create even a semblance of either should be a clue.
"harmony of scripture is as much a laughable inanity as "systematic theology." The HOOPS theologians have to negotiate to create even a semblance of either should be a clue.
It has been the custom of believers, for thousands of years, to provide
a Biblical reason for disagreeing with a doctrine... otherwise you are only
expressing your personal "feelings" on the matter - and a man's "feelings"
can never establish truth/reality.
If you have some Biblical validation for your comment above - please provide chapter and verse.
Otherwise I will assume you are only expressing your "feelings" and give your comment
no consideration whatsoever.
So why don't you LISTEN to a gay christian who studied that topic for over two years before preaching this message to his own church?
Regardless of custom or tradition, anytime any christian anywhere decides their beliefs EXCLUDES other people for any reason their duty is to make certain beyond any shadow of doubt--beyond what 12 jurors might find--before they preach or practice such exclusion.
Mr. Vines provides an in depth look at those "clobber" verses.
And better even than a message, read Rev. Mel White's autobiography, Stranger at the Gate, To Be Gay and Christian in America. His bonafides include a master's degree in divinity from Fuller Theological Seminary and he was a ghost writer (before he came out) for the likes of Jerry Falwell, Billy Graham, Pat Robertson, the Bakkers, and others. He produced Christian films as well. He was married and had two children--his wife knew of his homosexuality long before they parted ways. She thought enough of him to write the prelude to his autobiography.
Mel has been with his current partner--now husband--for over 20 years.
If there are two possible ways to interpret Scripture--a child of God always takes that interpretation in a manner that is least harmful to other people. There are gay christians who are forced into their own congregations. Metropolitan Community Church as a denomination has 172 churches worldwide, the largest (I think!!) being in Dallas, Texas with over 1200 members--not all of whom are gay.
Christians will think with their hearts not just with the admonition of words of Scripture---particularly when few if ANY christians in every day life undertake to read such Scripture using textual criticism--to understand the context of scripture (as Matthew Vines points out) before lending meaning to it.
Warden you are correct. The largest MCC is in Dallas, TX but others in Houston, Toronto, and San Diego are quite large.
Thankfully MCC is declining across North America - not because it is a sinful church but because more and more churches are welcoming of everyone, regardless of gender identify or sexual orientation. Where I am currently serving we are Federated (joint UCC and UMC) and under both banners we accept all and condemn no-one. Our mixed (heterosexual and homosexual) congregation is wonderful.
So why don't you LISTEN to a gay christian who studied that topic for over two years before preaching this message to his own church?
Regardless of custom or tradition, anytime any christian anywhere decides their beliefs EXCLUDES other people for any reason their duty is to make certain beyond any shadow of doubt--beyond what 12 jurors might find--before they preach or practice such exclusion.
Mr. Vines provides an in depth look at those "clobber" verses.
I can't see the video right now - so I don't know if it's the same video I had previously commented on... are you bring Vines back up again? ... mister Bible bait and switch the meanings of the text?
------------------------
Let me know when these people drop the homosexual modifier - and they just refer to themselves as Christians.
Do Christians who have gambling issues call themselves gambling Christians? or porno Christians? ...or greedy Christians? No - they are just Christians. And as Christians we should be striving to decrease sin in our lives - which includes homosexuality.
Step 1 - stop identifying yourselves with your sin. Just be a Christian.
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