Gay christians: Why i can’t affirm or condemn them (Jesus, Bible)
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That is a great article and as a same sex attracted person that is Christian it is very bold and to the point.
Not a great article. The author is gay, and has allowed other humans to convince him of a particular translation of certain Bible verses that his nature is not right. I'd say he's rather weak-minded, and will never be happy.
I don't care what the author or any other Christian fundamentalists think. I'm a man, happily married to a man, and we've been together nearly 2 decades. We're a happy family, with our children and our church that has no issues with our relationship. And if/when any fundies attempt to "save me from my sin", I'll shut them down and have nothing to do with it. I'm intelligent enough to know what's natural for me, and what I did and didn't choose. I chose love, happiness, and a family over fear, self-hatred and religious nonsense
I'm not gay but I've been around enough to believe that it is something that happens naturally. If there is a God (I believe there is) and he created us the way we are, then it can't be wrong to be what we were created, can it?
Agreed. Christian fundamentalism is a tool of fear, shame, and control. They use "hell" as a scare tactic to try and enforce their bigotry. I didn't fall for it!
Calling one self a gay christian and not being repentant on homosexual acts and seeing nothing sinful on them is certainly not a Christian way of life.
As Christians we are to repent on all of our sins including homosexual ones.
I think you forgot, "in my opinion".
There are thousands of different versions of Christianity, and yours is only one of them. You really think you just happen to have the right version? Or even the right religion, for that matter? Chances are extremely slim. Religion is man-made, all of it. Just because you couldn't find happiness being true to your nature doesn't mean other gay people cannot.
My relationship with my partner isn't sin, it's love. What's a "sin" is people using religion to make gay people miserable, to deny them their rights, and convince them that if they're true to their nature, they'll "burn in hell for eternity". There's your big SIN!
Agreed. Christian fundamentalism is a tool of fear, shame, and control. They use "hell" as a scare tactic to try and enforce their bigotry. I didn't fall for it!
Bears repeating. sorry too soon to rep and all.
Oooooh, and THEN you say, "What's a "sin" is people using religion to make gay people miserable, to deny them their rights, and convince them that if they're true to their nature, they'll "burn in hell for eternity". There's your big SIN!"
And I can't rep THAT!
See, what you gotta do is space these choice entries OUT more.....
Not a great article. The author is gay, and has allowed other humans to convince him of a particular translation of certain Bible verses that his nature is not right. I'd say he's rather weak-minded, and will never be happy.
I don't care what the author or any other Christian fundamentalists think. I'm a man, happily married to a man, and we've been together nearly 2 decades. We're a happy family, with our children and our church that has no issues with our relationship. And if/when any fundies attempt to "save me from my sin", I'll shut them down and have nothing to do with it. I'm intelligent enough to know what's natural for me, and what I did and didn't choose. I chose love, happiness, and a family over fear, self-hatred and religious nonsense
I wanted to rep you a couple of dozen times for this post but, obviously, I couldn't. The days of the 'fundies' are numbered and I think they know this. And, like anyone who is drowning, they will clutch at whatever they can to save themselves. The Bible texts that they use to support THEIR OWN PERSONAL bent on this subject are being thrown back at them with interpretations that are more fitting to their original intent. Not that the words from ANY book should EVER be used as a source to demean or to dehumanize another human being. Yep, the 'fundie movement' is in its last dying throes and this becomes quite evident on forums such as this one.
Hey, I've got an idea. How about one simply refer to themselves as "Christian" without any added prefix pertaining to their sexual orientation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by other99
...and not being repentant on homosexual acts ...
Tell me ...how does one Christian know when another professed Christian has 'repented' of their 'sins'? How would any of us here on the forum know that YOU have repented of YOUR sins? Does one first have to pass muster with other Christians, i.e. sign an affidavit, before one's 'repentance' is recognized? Is this not a matter SOLELY between the individual and God? See, this is yet another of those quirky things about Christianity that makes little sense.
Scenario #1: A homosexual repents of his/her 'sin of homosexuality'. They tell YOU that they've repented. They are accepted as "Christian" by you and other church members because they've repented. They go home and continue a homosexual relationship with their partner anyway away from the prying eyes of their church members.
Response? Would the homosexual person (yecchhh ...labels, I hate 'em!) be expected by the church to turn away from such homosexual practices once they had repented? Would they be expected to either become 'heterosexual' and find a partner of the opposite gender or otherwise live a life of celibacy?
Scenario #2: A heterosexual person who is divorced and has remarried is seen by the church to be 'living in sin'. He/she repents of his/her 'sin of adultery'. They tell YOU that they've repented. They are accepted as "Christian" by you and other church members because they've repented. They go home and continue a heterosexual adulterous relationship with their partner anyway and the church members are fine with this. In other words, they still remain (re)married and the church finds this okay. No change in their 'sinful' situation is required. JUST LIP SERVICE!
Response? SHOULD the adulterous heterosexual person (yecchhh ...did I tell you I hate labels?) be expected by the church to turn away from such adulterous practices once they had repented? SHOULD they be expected to either return to their original former partner or otherwise annul their 'biblically illegal' (re)marriage and live a life of celibacy?
You DO realize that Scenario #1 is one that Christians see as being mandatory for true repentance by the homosexual while Scenario #2 IS NOT EVEN CONSIDERED as a condition AT ALL for true repentance by the heterosexual, do you not? Do you not see not only the hypocrisy in this but also glaring scriptural ignorance surrounding this entire 'repentance' babble?
Quote:
Originally Posted by other99
...and seeing nothing sinful on them is certainly not a Christian way of life.
This "Christian way of life" you speak of is little more than empty Christian rhetoric. AS mentioned, some 'perceived sins are highlighted while other biblical sins are either not even recognized as 'sins' by the average Christian or they are otherwise ignored. The church abounds in hypocrisy and THIS is why they have set themselves up to so much ridicule by both secular society and even other Christians.
Quote:
Originally Posted by other99
As Christians we are to repent on all of our sins including homosexual ones.
No offense but these are pretty much empty words as far as I'm concerned.
All that said, I see no mention in the Bible that homosexuality is a sin anyway. Nowhere . . .
All that said, I see no mention in the Bible that homosexuality is a sin anyway. Nowhere . . .
Sorry that I have to correct you. The OT says that the man kind shalt not lie with man kind as with the woman kind.
Then the NT further clarifies that "the natural use of wom...."
But the female in the world were becoming more and more masculine. So sometimes I had no ideas that if I was interacting with a queen or king, a servant or the master.
Then finally, the Book ends with "had never defiled with women."
All that said, I see no mention in the Bible that homosexuality is a sin anyway. Nowhere . . .
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPPU12345
Sorry that I have to correct you. The OT says that the man kind shalt not lie with man kind as with the woman kind.
Well, so it does. No mention at all of homosexuality being a sin, however.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPPU12345
Then the NT further clarifies that "the natural use of wom...."
Again, no mention that homosexuality is a sin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPPU12345
But the female in the world were becoming more and more masculine. So sometimes I had no ideas that if I was interacting with a queen or king, a servant or the master.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPPU12345
Then finally, the Book ends with "had never defiled with women."
Therefore, you do the caculations.
Well, I've so far calculated from the contents of your post that there is no mention of homosexuality being a sin. Was that the intent of your post or do you just like green?
You mean to doubt the bible. God and the bible are not one and the same, of course. I understand that, for you, the bible infallibly speaks for God (even whatever english translation(s) that you probably are relying on), but just because you believe that, doesn't mean everyone else does...
So, based on your personal belief in an infallible bible, no, you don't need to explain it to yourself. You have chosen to accept it unquestionably as the thing which can convict you that some of your behaviors are sinful. And if you are homosexual and are convicted that it is sinful, then you'll have to come to terms with that for yourself. But when you choose to tell OTHERS that something about them is sinful based on your personal belief that the bible is infallible, then it becomes problematic.
Interestingly, your own bible doesn't tell you that it is your job, or even the bible's job, to convict people of sin. That is, reportedly, the job of the "Holy Spirit". Presumably, then, the Spirit wouldn't convict people of something in their life being a sin unless it is causing them to be out of harmony with the Spirit, the fruit of which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, etc.
ETA: So my question for you, and those who believe as you do, is rather than tell everyone that homosexuality is a sin when you are unable to show how it is sinful, why not trust the Spirit to do the Spirit's job?
Have a nice day- I won't contend with you anymore, as this is never ending. I stand on my beliefs and the Faith God has given me. You are free to disagree.
Have a nice day- I won't contend with you anymore, as this is never ending. I stand on my beliefs and the Faith God has given me. You are free to disagree.
In other words you don't have an answer and refuse to consider that your preconceptions might be wrong. Got it.
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