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I can imagine if it had been in the audience at an atheist convention.
"it's because they have no morality." And, aside that I totally agree that it is utterly uncommon behaviour, I am amused to see the cautious attempt to whitewash the whole thing (1) to save Christian Face. If not, they can be designated "No Real Christian".
(1) though, while I must agree digging into the facts to make sure we have them right, if an atheists suggested doing that (like the news -story of an atheists teacher reported for trying to tell her pupils there was no God - she turned out to be a Christian getting her students to think about it) we would be accused of trying to wriggle out of the aim of the myriad pointed fingers.
The was an incedent in a church a number of years ago in which a group of terrorist burst into a church and opened fire on the congregation. The killing only stopped when armed members of the congregation shot back! I've carried a firearm into a church. I was not worried about being in the church, it was getting to and from the church.
I would have expected this sort of thing in the church where I was a kid. I am sad to see that the Baptists are not evolving towards something better.
So let me get this straight.....the shooting might have been legal under the law....
I can only speculate what started this.....One guy says "The Bible says this" and the other guy says
"OH No it says this" and back and forth, next thing you know, one guy goes and gets his pistol, walks into church and shoots the other guy....
It is legal to walk into a church and kill someone after an argument
Makes me glad I do not go to church
Then again, I am not so insecure that I feel the need to kill anyone who might hold a different opinion than I do.
Oh and the article points out that Baptists have the highest number of shootings. Don't Baptist have the highest number of NRA members and GOP members, as well as the closest ties to the KKK as well ?
And in the 21st century, people are still messed up enough to want to be part of a Baptist church, where the Love of God is so contagious that members will gladly kill each other over an argument.
The Protestant church in America is irrelevant.
The situation was predicted and warned against during the last half of the twentieth century by well known theologians such as Reinhold Neibuhr, Bill Graham and Francis Schaeffer among others. Today the evidence mounts against the church.
The church today has a form of religion, but denies the power of it.
According to statistical evidence published by PEW and the Gallup organization, regular attendance in church is a fraction of what it was in the 1948 post-war era. There is no virtual or literal difference today between the Protestant Church and any secular organization.
“The NFL owns a day of the week. The same day the Church used to own. Now it’s theirs.”
- Dr. Cyril Wecht CONCUSSION Columbia Pictures
No difference between the church and the NFL, except perhaps for one important perversion of doctrine. The church, especially the Baptist church, teaches that all men have a license to sin. I'm not kidding. The LAST TIME I sat in a Baptist Church I heard the preacher end his message on grace by saying, "go out and sin this week that grace may abound."
NO ONE HAS A LICENSE TO SIN.
Nobody does. The sinner certainly doesn't and the saint even less so. The Protestant church has denied the law of Moses and perverted the gospel by saying that when Jesus fulfilled the law he somehow negated it. Nothing could be further from the truth. Jesus lived and acted and validated the law for His entire life and did NOT eliminate it by dying because of it. Anybody who believes that the law is no longer in effect is doing himself a disservice. Anybody who preaches it is a son of satan.
Judgment begins in the house of God. So the Bible says. In days and months to come we shall see the effect of judgment upon the empty shell of religion that calls itself Protestantism.
Judgment begins in the house of God. So the Bible says. In days and months to come we shall see the effect of judgment upon the empty shell of religion that calls itself Protestantism.
and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
Judgment begins at the very sanctuary of God when God kills the last sacrifice. At 6 pm, on the 6th day in the 6th month in the 6th year, they lay dead at the sanctuary. The date changes in the eve at the sacrifice and so when judgment begins at the sanctuary, the date has just changed.
There is nothing about entering a church that makes one incapable of idiocy or violent intents.
But there sure are things about subscribing to the ideology of some churches that will facilitate idiocy or violent intents.
Mind you, I am not ignoring that there are things in church ideology that encourage good behavior (though often for entirely the wrong reasons). It is just that if you are invested in a doctrinal stance that validates your eternal destiny, in an environment that tends to value Being Right about capital-T Truth, anyone attacking the doctrine becomes an existential threat. Especially if, as often and easily happens, you forget that you are not your beliefs. Then it is not a stretch that it can escalate into conflict which can become physical.
The church, especially the Baptist church, teaches that all men have a license to sin. I'm not kidding. The LAST TIME I sat in a Baptist Church I heard the preacher end his message on grace by saying, "go out and sin this week that grace may abound."
The things that emerge from pastor's mouths sometimes in service of ginning up one or more provocative three-point sermons per week! But I suspect you are overstating your case. I grew up in churches similar to the Baptist ilk, and they were always pretty careful to say that while you are saved through grace alone, the evidence of that salvation is a transformed life as manifested in good works. In fact, Romans 6:1-2 clearly states, "What shall we say then -- shall we go on sinning that grace may increase? By no means!" So if you heard this pastor correctly, and (ahem) "in context", he was preaching heresy.
In other words Baptists don't have an aversion to good works or righteousness, so long as you don't rely on them to save you. Quite the contrary in my experience.
What's the antidote anyway? Preaching legalism? That simply leads to a different set of problems.
To my mind the real problem is misdiagnosing the human condition by viewing it through concepts like the utter depravity of man. The church has had 2000 years to transform the human condition, and has utterly failed. Just doing the same things and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity.
But there sure are things about subscribing to the ideology of some churches that will facilitate idiocy or violent intents.
Mind you, I am not ignoring that there are things in church ideology that encourage good behavior (though often for entirely the wrong reasons). It is just that if you are invested in a doctrinal stance that validates your eternal destiny, in an environment that tends to value Being Right about capital-T Truth, anyone attacking the doctrine becomes an existential threat. Especially if, as often and easily happens, you forget that you are not your beliefs. Then it is not a stretch that it can escalate into conflict which can become physical.
Sincere followers of Jesus Christ should never get into a physical fight, no matter what. Christ taught to turn the other cheek and to love our enemies. In contrast to the Old Testament, Christ taught not to hate our enemies.
Matthew 5:43-45 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
So if church members sincerely follow this 'ideology' called the Bible, there should be no violence, not even in self-protection. At least non-violence is one of the things the Amish got right! But you shouldn't blame the 'ideology', the teachings of Jesus Christ, for violent people in the church that don't follow Christs commandments. And yes, loving your enemies is very very hard, to forgive is very hard. It is actually impossible without Gods grace and love in our hearts through faith in Jesus Christ.
Seriously, shooting up a church? Especially your own church? What's up with that?
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