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But where does it say that tongues bring deliverance? Tongues, Paul says, are meanth for a sign to the unbelievers. But if here is a room filled with believers, as you say, why not follow the teaching of Paul to rather speak five words with understanding than ten thousand in an unknown tongue?
1 Corinthians 14: 19-22 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Also look at the teaching of Paul on how the talking in tongues should be done:
1 Corinthians 14:26-27 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
Not by an entire crowd of believers, all shouting in tongues through each other, it is to be done orderly and with interpretation. I am not against tongues, or against the gifts of the Spirit at all. The point is that it should be for edification of the Church, it should be interpreted, and it should be done orderly.
I read a few stories last night of brothers that tested the spirit speaking in tongues asking if they confess Jesus Christ as Lord according to: 1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:. And on multiple occasions the spirit turned out to be a demon and deny Christ of which the person had to be delivered.
1)They were praying for deliverance. If he had asked them all to pray in English for deliverance, would you be offended? Then why is it an offense if he asks that everyone allows their Spirit to pray through them? Should not the Spirit have the pre-eminence in all things? Or having begun in the Spirit are we now made perfect by the flesh and what it can do?
Once again, there is a difference between the GIFT of tongues, and the tongues that is our prayer language from the release of our Spirit praying through us. He asked everyone to pray in the Spirit, or to allow the Spirit to pray through them. It was NOT the gift of tongues that requires an interpreter, that should be done with no more than 3. What Paul didn't want was 3 people speaking out at the same time, and then getting 3 interpretations at the same time, of different messages. If 3 people are talking at the same time, no one can hear the message clearly. That was his point, and it was about the GIFT of tongues.
2) There's nothing shocking about that. For everything G-d's Spirit has, the enemy attempts to counterfeit it. Usually the tongues they produce is Latin, sometimes something spoken in reverse. I guess because not many people speak the "dead" language that it is today, except the Catholic priests. And a BELIEVER, who has received Christ into his heart, cannot get a demon, only an evil spirit. Not all people that go to church, even the ones that teach salvation through His indwelling, are saved. There are also unscrupulous people who will make up such stories, because there is nothing the enemy of our soul hates more, than a believer with the power to cast him and his spirits, out. Peace
Let all the lights be turned out and let not the Sun give it's light, nor the moon until the people of the Lord ask the Lord for rain when it is the days for praying for the rain. I don't want to see the majority of Christians lose out on the greatest gift ever given to mankind and that is where we are at. Billions in the valley of decision and if they had just the slightest clue what would await them, then they would be praying for rain not only in the time of rain, but they would pray everyday and every night because the rain of Sukkot will make the rain of Pentecost literally look like nothing, but what person who claims that he has the rain right now will receive the rain of the fall?
LISTEN CHRISTIAN!
Do not put your blessing in the hands of those who teach you wrong, FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF.
Jesus has 7 feast days and every one is for you, learn the difference between the spring rain ad the fall rain for yourself cause you will not be able to point at your preacher sayng,'' But preacher told me......''
Better find out the 7 feast days yourself, and when you see thousands or people indwelled with the second rain, there is only you to be responsible whether you receive or not, but if you think you already have the rain, then there is no use for praying for another rain. And the sad, very sad truth of the second rain is the fact that it will not be shared as the first was.
Why you don't think I know what is coming, is beyond me, friend. I've known for 30 years. But the former rain didn't end with the disciples, there were 2 days/2000 years of doing cures, casting out devils realm of Pentecost to go, as Yeshua Himself testified to, and the feast of Tabernacles has begun for some of us already. Peace
Prophecy stems from numerous God inspired ,visioned ,prediction gifts especially those in the Old Testament that will be fullfilled in the New Testament. Tongues is a supernatural gutteral response to
a number of instances . One is a promise ( Acts 2:39) that we will receive the "gift" aka baptism of the Holy Spirit already evidenced by the 3000 at Pentecost ,but not exclusive to those present. Peter announces that their children and those "far off" aka gentiles (you and me) will receive the Holy Spirit. Then there is the "gift " of tongues, the interpretation of tongues .
Prophecy stems from numerous God inspired ,visioned ,prediction gifts especially those in the Old Testament that will be fullfilled in the New Testament. Tongues is a supernatural gutteral response to
a number of instances . One is a promise ( Acts 2:39) that we will receive the "gift" aka baptism of the Holy Spirit already evidenced by the 3000 at Pentecost ,but not exclusive to those present. Peter announces that their children and those "far off" aka gentiles (you and me) will receive the Holy Spirit. Then there is the "gift " of tongues, the interpretation of tongues .
Let us get this clear ...biblically speaking. 'Tongues' are none other than 'known languages'. They were given as 'a helper' (as per Jesus) for the disciples to spread the Gospel message to the rest of the world. Different languages (spoken by different nationalities) were required with which to accomplish this. This stands to reason! These languages were 1. either spoken by those who were not normally gifted with a language other than their own OR, 2. they were HEARD in the language of the hearer. THIS is what Acts is about. It has NOTHING to do with present-day charismatic 'babble'!
Paul (Corinthians) is a whole other issue NOT related to Acts. I don't know how many times this needs to be emphasized but it's the CHURCH OF CORINTH that is being addressed here - AND admonished by Paul - and has NOTHING to do with we in the year 2016! We find NOTHING about 'tongues' in the books of Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians or Thessalonians. Why not? Because Corinthians was a specific problem area involving the coming together of many different nationalities with many diverse languages or 'tongues'. It was a crossroads for travelers and traders, a hub of commerce at the time of Paul. Like any large city, Corinth was plagued with unbridled immorality, sacred prostitutes from at least several pagan temples and, the Church of Corinth itself was plagued with numerous problems. THESE problems were being addressed by Paul in the first Book of Corinthians. One more time 'tongues' are not mentioned in ANY OTHER Pauline Books but 1 Corinthians!!
Of course Pentecostal 'babblers' are going to make a case for themselves from the Bible for this nonsense ...misinterpretations of scripture are great for justifying false beliefs! The claim by one to (allegedly) 'speak in tongues' exalts that individual over those that don't claim to do so. No wonder the Pentecostal church wants ALL of its members to claim this nonsensical 'gift'. They will even TEACH YOU how to do it! It's no more than religious narcissism. People have a desire to belong. This is why SO MANY of them will just about bend over backwards to receive this so-called gift. People don't want to be left out. Imagine the lonely Pentecostal asking this question: "Why am "I" being neglected by the Holy Spirit when so many others in the church demonstrate their 'Spirit infilling'?"
The 'circus' that we see in many Pentecostal churches is NOT scriptural! It is simply NOT. NOR IS 'prayer language' if it's anything other than one's OWN language!!
Let us get this clear ...biblically speaking. 'Tongues' are none other than 'known languages'. They were given as 'a helper' (as per Jesus) for the disciples to spread the Gospel message to the rest of the world. Different languages (spoken by different nationalities) were required with which to accomplish this. This stands to reason! These languages were 1. either spoken by those who were not normally gifted with a language other than their own OR, 2. they were HEARD in the language of the hearer. THIS is what Acts is about. It has NOTHING to do with present-day charismatic 'babble'!
Paul (Corinthians) is a whole other issue NOT related to Acts. I don't know how many times this needs to be emphasized but it's the CHURCH OF CORINTH that is being addressed here - AND admonished by Paul - and has NOTHING to do with we in the year 2016! We find NOTHING about 'tongues' in the books of Romans, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians or Thessalonians. Why not? Because Corinthians was a specific problem area involving the coming together of many different nationalities with many diverse languages or 'tongues'. It was a crossroads for travelers and traders, a hub of commerce at the time of Paul. Like any large city, Corinth was plagued with unbridled immorality, sacred prostitutes from at least several pagan temples and, the Church of Corinth itself was plagued with numerous problems. THESE problems were being addressed by Paul in the first Book of Corinthians. One more time 'tongues' are not mentioned in ANY OTHER Pauline Books but 1 Corinthians!!
Of course Pentecostal 'babblers' are going to make a case for themselves from the Bible for this nonsense ...misinterpretations of scripture are great for justifying false beliefs! The claim by one to (allegedly) 'speak in tongues' exalts that individual over those that don't claim to do so. No wonder the Pentecostal church wants ALL of its members to claim this nonsensical 'gift'. They will even TEACH YOU how to do it! It's no more than religious narcissism. People have a desire to belong. This is why SO MANY of them will just about bend over backwards to receive this so-called gift. People don't want to be left out. Imagine the lonely Pentecostal asking this question: "Why am "I" being neglected by the Holy Spirit when so many others in the church demonstrate their 'Spirit infilling'?"
The 'circus' that we see in many Pentecostal churches is NOT scriptural! It is simply NOT. NOR IS 'prayer language' if it's anything other than one's OWN language!!
1) And I've already told you that simply isn't true, and why. You have not experienced either gift, so that's why I keep bringing up the plumber giving advice to a brain surgeon
analogy, which is apropos.
2) I've also told you it's in type in Leviticus. I don't have to make a case for myself. It's funny you think it's exalts those of us that do, yet you won't humble yourself to receive it yourself? But then I don't even know if you've humbled yourself to receive salvation, which is the first prerequisite. Now who's exalted? People who won't relinquish control, fearful people who can't trust Him implicitly and have been taught of men, these are who generally reject His baptism.
No one taught me how to "do it". No one touched me when I received it, nor was I a "lonely Pentecostal." And like anything that's of His Spirit, if it happens to you, NO ONE will be able to tell you that you didn't receive it, or that it wasn't from G-d. If it's more of G-d, why WOULDN'T anyone want it? Those that hunger (the Word) and thirst (the Spirit) for righteousness, shall be filled, but the rebellious live in a dry land. Peace
Why you don't think I know what is coming, is beyond me, friend. I've known for 30 years. But the former rain didn't end with the disciples, there were 2 days/2000 years of doing cures, casting out devils realm of Pentecost to go, as Yeshua Himself testified to, and the feast of Tabernacles has begun for some of us already. Peace
There are many everywhere who have the spirit, I could write the names down of everyone in this forum who has a spirit.
It is just not the spirit that was given on Pentecost and there is a way of walking in Sukkot, but none have been given the double portion of Sukkot or we would all know their name.
There are many everywhere who have the spirit, I could write the names down of everyone in this forum who has a spirit.
It is just not the spirit that was given on Pentecost and there is a way of walking in Sukkot, but none have been given the double portion of Sukkot or we would all know their name.
No, bro, none have been given the DOUBLE portion of Sukkot yet. But to have a double you must first have a single, and it is given to anyone who wants to enter into Pentecost spiritually. They are ALL spiritual feasts, ie. marked with an increase of the Spirit in some way. Peace
No, bro, none have been given the DOUBLE portion of Sukkot yet. But to have a double you must first have a single, and it is given to anyone who wants to enter into Pentecost spiritually. They are ALL spiritual feasts, ie. marked with an increase of the Spirit in some way. Peace
If people still had the spirit of Pentecost, there would be no need for a second spirit. And there is nobody who can do the works of the holy spirit, that is just the truth.
No, bro, none have been given the DOUBLE portion of Sukkot yet. But to have a double you must first have a single, and it is given to anyone who wants to enter into Pentecost spiritually. They are ALL spiritual feasts, ie. marked with an increase of the Spirit in some way. Peace
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
If people still had the spirit of Pentecost, there would be no need for a second spirit. And there is nobody who can do the works of the holy spirit, that is just the truth.
There is perhaps nothing more frustrating and annoying for me than magical thinkers and symbolic kabbalists pretending they have the exclusive secret decoder ring to God's truth. Under the New Covenant, we ALL have access to Christ who abides with us as the Comforter sent in His name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts." We don't need any secret decoder ring or anyone to teach us. Christ is the Living Word of God and He will teach us all we need to know if we sincerely seek it within our hearts in agape love of God and each other.
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