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I never had prayer with my students, as a director. Your anger has caused you to misread my story.
No, Jesus did NOT say, “Do not pray in public.” He said, “Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them.”
I'm not angry. I'm just pointing out a serious fallacy, one that is counter to Christ's teachings and actually interferes in building Christ's kingdom on earth. Here is precisely what Christ said:
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
Note the use of the word 'secret.' In other words, pray where and when other people cannot see you. I don't know how this can be such a difficult concept for you.
As for the other, I did misunderstand this statement: "I imagine that takes place in larger communities. I was a public school band director in 4 small communities in my state over a 30 year teaching career. All of them had prayer before Friday night football games."
Nevertheless, whether you required it or the school board, it remained a mandatory prayer, chiefly because it was mandated as part of the game. If you guys wanted to have a prayer at the flagpole before the game, no problem. I mean, did members of your band get to excuse themselves and sit in the parking lot until the prayer was finished? Or were they required to sit in the bleachers until the final 'Amen.'
In other words, the minute you blast prayers over the loudspeakers before kickoff, you are no better than the muzzein calling the faithful to prayers to Allah.
Last edited by MinivanDriver; 01-20-2019 at 08:15 PM..
I'm not angry. I'm just pointing out a serious fallacy, one that is counter to Christ's teachings and actually interferes in building Christ's kingdom on earth. Here is precisely what Christ said:
5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.
Note the use of the word 'secret.' In other words, pray where and when other people cannot see you. I don't know how this can be such a difficult concept for you.
As for the other, I did misunderstand this statement: "I imagine that takes place in larger communities. I was a public school band director in 4 small communities in my state over a 30 year teaching career. All of them had prayer before Friday night football games."
Nevertheless, whether you required it or the school board, it remained a mandatory prayer, chiefly because it was mandated as part of the game. If you guys wanted to have a prayer at the flagpole before the game, no problem. I mean, did members of your band get to excuse themselves and sit in the parking lot until the prayer was finished? Or were they required to sit in the bleachers until the final 'Amen.'
In other words, the minute you blast prayers over the loudspeakers before kickoff, you are no better than the muzzein calling the faithful to prayers to Allah.
You were incorrect to say Jesus prohibited public prayer. He said, basically, don’t be a self-righteous hypocrite. A community acknowledging their creator is not that.
You were incorrect to say Jesus prohibited public prayer. He said, basically, don’t be a self-righteous hypocrite. A community acknowledging their creator is not that.
Fundamentalist Christianity is not "That Old Time Religion" - it is new. It was formed out of FEAR - a religious
reaction to social change. One could say it was more of a social movement than a theological movement.
Prior to Fundamentalism, American Christianity was essentially progressive.
All practicing Christians were Social Justice Warriors. Mostly they were on the side of good and of justice. Christians were at the forefront of the Abolitionist movement. During slavery, Christians broke the law of the land in order to help enslaved slaves escape, and make their way to freedom. They provided a network of homes that provided shelter for escaped slaves on their way to Canada. As you know, this was known as the "Underground Railroad". Practicing mainline Christians were (and are) at the forefront of anti-slavery movement, Woman's Suffrage, work place safety, children's welfare, public education, and helping the newest Americans to acclimate.
They were in the vanguard of these movements because all of them are informed by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Christianity IS a religion that promotes social justice.
Look at the religions of the Founding Fathers. None were from fundamentalist Churches. The main reason for this is that there was NO FUNDAMENTALIST Christianity.
Fundamentalist Christianity is the product of fanatical individuals. Prominent Fundie Denomination - Church of the Nazarene, Church of God, The Christian and Missionary Alliance, the Assemblies of God, The Four Square Church - all came into being in the mid to late 1800s through the 1920s.
The exception is the Baptist church, which was started by religious reformer Roger Williams.
The American Baptist Church remains a Mainline and moderate to progressive Protestant denomination.
Fundamentalist Baptists initially became Southern Baptists when they broke from the Baptist Church because they supported slavery.
Authentic Christianity has always been progressive at it's core.
And this is why I am friends with sheena12. Well, that and some of her recipes.
You were incorrect to say Jesus prohibited public prayer. He said, basically, don’t be a self-righteous hypocrite. A community acknowledging their creator is not that.
You are an unsinkable rubber duck jimmiej
Please don’t interpret that in any other way then what it actually says.
With the directions pertining topublic prayer - think of this.
Ever had lunch with a fundie or two who demanded to hold hands and pray out loud at a restaurant? I have. It is not normal. It attracts attention. It is NOT a "witness" it just makes the praying people - and by extension ALL Christians - look fanatical and crazy.
People are not attracted to Christianity by such public displays. They think it's weird. That is all.
With the directions pertining topublic prayer - think of this.
Ever had lunch with a fundie or two who demanded to hold hands and pray out loud at a restaurant? I have. It is not normal. It attracts attention. It is NOT a "witness" it just makes the praying people - and by extension ALL Christians - look fanatical and crazy.
People are not attracted to Christianity by such public displays. They think it's weird. That is all.
Unfortunately, judging by extension seems to be the norm these days...that's probably why when someone attacks a place of worship the various attacks can seemingly appear random.
Fundamentalist Christianity is not "That Old Time Religion" - it is new. It was formed out of FEAR - a religious
reaction to social change. One could say it was more of a social movement than a theological movement.
Prior to Fundamentalism, American Christianity was essentially progressive.
All practicing Christians were Social Justice Warriors. Mostly they were on the side of good and of justice. Christians were at the forefront of the Abolitionist movement. During slavery, Christians broke the law of the land in order to help enslaved slaves escape, and make their way to freedom. They provided a network of homes that provided shelter for escaped slaves on their way to Canada. As you know, this was known as the "Underground Railroad". Practicing mainline Christians were (and are) at the forefront of anti-slavery movement, Woman's Suffrage, work place safety, children's welfare, public education, and helping the newest Americans to acclimate.
They were in the vanguard of these movements because all of them are informed by the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Christianity IS a religion that promotes social justice.
Look at the religions of the Founding Fathers. None were from fundamentalist Churches. The main reason for this is that there was NO FUNDAMENTALIST Christianity.
Fundamentalist Christianity is the product of fanatical individuals. Prominent Fundie Denomination - Church of the Nazarene, Church of God, The Christian and Missionary Alliance, the Assemblies of God, The Four Square Church - all came into being in the mid to late 1800s through the 1920s.
The exception is the Baptist church, which was started by religious reformer Roger Williams.
The American Baptist Church remains a Mainline and moderate to progressive Protestant denomination.
Fundamentalist Baptists initially became Southern Baptists when they broke from the Baptist Church because they supported slavery.
Authentic Christianity has always been progressive at it's core.
The people one associates with really makes a difference in our lives...
Unfortunately, judging by extension seems to be the norm these days...that's probably why when someone attacks a place of worship the various attacks can seemingly appear random.
unfortunately judging by extension is usually on point...
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Well, that and some of her recipes.
