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It's the picture of the unbeliever that is painted throughout Scripture. Ephesians 2, Romans 6-8 says the unbeliever is a slave to sin, Romans 3 says no one seeks God. Not only that, pick a random letter in the NT. Pretty sure you'll find a reference to God choosing us.
Ask yourself why God chose Abraham. Why did he have to choose him? Why didn't Abraham follow him first?
Yes. There is nothing in Scripture that suggests otherwise. Pelagius taught that we have libertarian free will, which means that we can freely choose to or not. And he was soundly condemned as a heretic about 1700 years ago.
First of all, the Romans 3 passage DOES NOT SAY NO ONE CAN SEEK GOD. The doctrine of total depravity says that. It claims man is so totally depraved that God must first regenerate him before he can seek God. Can you not see the leap Baptists take from “none seek God” to no one can seek?
Yes we are slaves to sin. That is our human nature, but nowhere in Romans 6-8 does it say we are so totally depraved that we cannot seek God.
If people are born totally depraved, then why does Jesus want us to be like them? Unless we become like children we cannot enter the kingdom.
No passage in all of Scripture says we are born totally depraved and unable to seek God.
Why did God choose Abraham? He chose him because of his faith, his obedience, and his constant seeking of God!
First of all, the Romans 3 passage DOES NOT SAY NO ONE CAN SEEK GOD. The doctrine of total depravity says that. It claims man is so totally depraved that God must first regenerate him before he can seek God. Can you not see the leap Baptists take from “none seek God” to no one can seek?
So saying none seek God, no one does good, our throats are open graves, we deceive, we have venom in our lips, our paths are ruin......
Yet, you believe that we somehow seek God of our own free will?
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Yes we are slaves to sin. That is our human nature, but nowhere in Romans 6-8 does it say we are so totally depraved that we cannot seek God.
huh?
Rom 8:5-8
"For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God."
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If people are born totally depraved, then why does Jesus want us to be like them? Unless we become like children we cannot enter the kingdom.
Huh?
Quote:
No passage in all of Scripture says we are born totally depraved and unable to seek God.
Rom 8:7 "For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot."
Why did God choose Abraham? He chose him because of his faith, his obedience, and his constant seeking of God!
What verse says that? Genesis 12 is him telling Abram to go. No verse says that God chose him based on faith. He commanded him to go. It's after that, that we see Abraham's faith revealed. And yes--it's after that, that we see God testing him and revealing Abraham's faith. AFTER he had been chosen.
First of all, the Romans 3 passage DOES NOT SAY NO ONE CAN SEEK GOD. The doctrine of total depravity says that. It claims man is so totally depraved that God must first regenerate him before he can seek God. Can you not see the leap Baptists take from “none seek God” to no one can seek?
Yes we are slaves to sin. That is our human nature, but nowhere in Romans 6-8 does it say we are so totally depraved that we cannot seek God.
If people are born totally depraved, then why does Jesus want us to be like them? Unless we become like children we cannot enter the kingdom.
No passage in all of Scripture says we are born totally depraved and unable to seek God.
Why did God choose Abraham? He chose him because of his faith, his obedience, and his constant seeking of God!
Miss Kate,
Here is a bunch of wisemen from the East seeking Jesus. This was at his birth, how much more now he has been lifted up ?
Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, [wise men from the East came to Jerusalem, 2 saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.” Matt 2-1:2
Romans 3 is quoting Psalm 140. It's poetry that makes use of hyperbole.
We know it is not literally true that no one is righteous or seeks God, though of course we understand the point that the Psalmist is making.
The Bible calls Noah and Joseph righteous, among others I believe. Also we know (though I know you disbelieve it) that the Blessed Virgin was conceived immaculately without the stain of original sin.
Romans 3 is quoting Psalm 140. It's poetry that makes use of hyperbole.
We know it is not literally true that no one is righteous or seeks God, though of course we understand the point that the Psalmist is making.
The Bible calls Noah and Joseph righteous, among others I believe. Also we know (though I know you disbelieve it) that the Blessed Virgin was conceived immaculately without the stain of original sin.
We are born "dead" spiritually in the same sense a car battery is said to be dead if it won't start the car. But like the car battery that can be charged by an outside source so can we be brought to life by the Spirit if we are seeking God. See the account of Lydia in Acts 16 where the spirit opened her eyes and hearing to listen to Paul.
Acts 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went outside the gate to the riverside, where we supposed there was a place of prayer, and we sat down and spoke to the women who had come together. 14 One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul. 15 And after she was baptized, and her household as well, she urged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” And she prevailed upon us.
If you have truly found Jesus you had help..........of the powerful kind........so gentle you will think it was all you finding the Lord..........
I believe the testimony and sacred teachings of the Church.
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