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When one is taught of God he then can do things that reflect that relationship.
In our own wisdom, we see a problem from our perspective, like democrats throwing money at every problem, it does not work. man's perspective is flawed.
God knows the problem and it's root and how best to deal with it. Listening to Him the problem is dealt with more effectively.
Jesus provided the Holy Spirit to teach in His place if indeed Jesus has Lordship in your life.
Jesus said, "Blessed are they that do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be filled.)
God's perspective of righteousness is actually listening to Him and obeying Him, go beyond scriptures and men's teaching. this has every thing to do with your prayer life and submission to God in real time.
The desperation one exercises in this relationship needing God's direction will be equally met with God's interest.
The same is true with neglect. God does not force himself on people.
Adam died because he sinned. All humans die because of sin. But it's also synonymous with spiritual death. Mankind is dead, spiritually, until made alive by God.
So, my answer is really "both".
Thanks for answering my question.
I agree that we die physically due to Adam’s sin, but when God told Adam that he would die the day he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, it was spiritual death He was speaking of. We know this because Adam did not physically die that day. Spiritual death means separation from God. When Adam & Eve sinned they were put out of the garden and away from the presence of God. They disobeyed! That is spiritual death.
I asked you about Romans 12. You say you believe it is about both physical and spiritual death. I disagree with you. I think Paul is speaking strictly of spiritual death here. I say this because the context demands it. From the beginning of Romans 5, Paul speaks of reconciliation. In verse 8, Paul writes, “…while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” We have peace with God through Jesus. This about spiritual death, not physical.
In the immediate context, verses 10-11, Paul writes,
“10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.” When we were enemies speaks of spiritual death, separation from God.
Then we come to verse 12. “Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—“
Verse 16 tells us the judgement resulted in condemnation. That is spiritual death. Grace resulted in justification. That is spiritual life. “15 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.”
I agree that we die physically due to Adam’s sin, but when God told Adam that he would die the day he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, it was spiritual death He was speaking of. We know this because Adam did not physically die that day. Spiritual death means separation from God. When Adam & Eve sinned they were put out of the garden and away from the presence of God. They disobeyed! That is spiritual death.
I asked you about Romans 12. You say you believe it is about both physical and spiritual death. I disagree with you. I think Paul is speaking strictly of spiritual death here. I say this because the context demands it. From the beginning of Romans 5, Paul speaks of reconciliation. In verse 8, Paul writes, “…while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” We have peace with God through Jesus. This about spiritual death, not physical.
In the immediate context, verses 10-11, Paul writes,
“10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.” When we were enemies speaks of spiritual death, separation from God.
Then we come to verse 12. “Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—“
Verse 16 tells us the judgement resulted in condemnation. That is spiritual death. Grace resulted in justification. That is spiritual life. “15 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.”
No, we don't die physically due to Adam's sin. Physical death, both of man and animals has been a fact of life long before the biblical Adam existed, if he existed. Nor is a historical Adam necessary for the necessity of Jesus to die for our sins.
Physical death, both of man and animals has been a fact of life long before the biblical Adam existed, if he existed.
You would assert that God is then responsible for deliberately bringing into His creation death, deformity, struggle, misery, failure, disease, extinction, etc.?
I agree that we die physically due to Adam’s sin, but when God told Adam that he would die the day he ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, it was spiritual death He was speaking of. We know this because Adam did not physically die that day. Spiritual death means separation from God. When Adam & Eve sinned they were put out of the garden and away from the presence of God. They disobeyed! That is spiritual death.
Yes. That's correct.
And God also announced other effects to them, such as Adam working in the dirt, Eve desiring Adam's position, her having pain in childbirth, etc. And physical death came as a result of the sin.
Quote:
I asked you about Romans 12. You say you believe it is about both physical and spiritual death. I disagree with you. I think Paul is speaking strictly of spiritual death here. I say this because the context demands it. From the beginning of Romans 5, Paul speaks of reconciliation. In verse 8, Paul writes, “…while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” We have peace with God through Jesus. This about spiritual death, not physical.
In the immediate context, verses 10-11, Paul writes,
“10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life. 11 And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.” When we were enemies speaks of spiritual death, separation from God.
Then we come to verse 12. “Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—“
Verse 16 tells us the judgement resulted in condemnation. That is spiritual death. Grace resulted in justification. That is spiritual life. “15 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one 16 And the gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned. For the judgment which came from one offense resulted in condemnation, but the free gift which came from many offenses resulted in justification.”
Ok?
Historically physical death has been linked with spiritual death. They're 2 sides of a coin. Having said that, does it make a difference one way or another?
One thing is certain. Neither Romans 3 or any other book in all of Scripture uses the words “totally depraved.” That’s an invention of man.
The actual words may not be used, but the inference and principle of it is in scripture. Man by nature is dead in sin and alienated from God. Plus Romans 3 bears that out.
The actual words may not be used, but the inference and principle of it is in scripture. Man by nature is dead in sin and alienated from God. Plus Romans 3 bears that out.
You sound like a man who has never considered the lilies of the field and the birds of the air and come to the conclusion that in his eyes you are favored of him and loved of him while even at our worst.
Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.
How precious to me are your thoughts, O God! How vast is the sum of them!
You can only pin this evil depravity doctrine on the gullible and easily led folk, but it will not work on those who know their God
You sound like a man who has never considered the lilies of the field and the birds of the air and come to the conclusion that in his eyes you are favored of him and loved of him while even at our worst.
Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: 29And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows.
How precious to me are your thoughts, O God! How vast is the sum of them!
You can only pin this evil depravity doctrine on the gullible and easily led folk, but it will not work on those who know their God
Man naturally lacks the ability to come to Christ Jn 6:44
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Man naturally lacks the ability to come to Christ Jn 6:44
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Thats because spiritually man is dead.
But Jesus said, if I will be lifted up I WILL draw ALL men unto me. Obviously in your exclusive mind you think he draws ONLY you and your chosen mates.
But Jesus said, if I will be lifted up I WILL draw ALL men unto me. Obviously in your exclusive mind you think he draws ONLY you and your chosen mates.
When Christ draws that makes men a new creature, spiritually alive. And the all men are the elect, jew and gentile. Not all without exception.
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