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I guess it depends on how one defines "depraved". As far as I know, it was never really a Catholic theological concept, but is only used by Catholics as a response to Calvin's ideas.
"Depraved" is one of those words that's very imprecise and subjective, so is not really useful in philosophical or theological discussions. It's better to use words that have more concrete meanings.
You’re right Mike! Total Depravity is an invention of man. It’s embraced by the followers of John Calvin. You see, if a term or phrase is not found in the Holy Scriptures, then man gets to give it his own definition. He then applies it Scripturally.
I don’t recall Roman Catholics using the term, but they do apply the concept of it when they say infants are born with a sin stained soul. The teaching of original sin falls under total depravity.
When I say men naturally i mean the unregenerate man, in the flesh, never born again ? Can this person seek after the True and Living God ? The answer is NO !
Scripture makes that clear, that man naturally doesnt seek after God Rom 3:9-12
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
The word seekth here is related to and joined with Faith here Heb 11:1,6
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Now the word seek here and the one in Rom 3:11 are the same greek word ekzeteo which means:
I seek out, seek out after, require.
to seek the favor of God, worship him
And believing Faith seeks after the True God. But because of our depravity by nature, we dont seek after God, nor have the ability to !
When I say men naturally i mean the unregenerate man, in the flesh, never born again ? Can this person seek after the True and Living God ? The answer is NO !
Scripture makes that clear, that man naturally doesnt seek after God Rom 3:9-12
9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
The word seekth here is related to and joined with Faith here Heb 11:1,6
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
Now the word seek here and the one in Rom 3:11 are the same greek word ekzeteo which means:
I seek out, seek out after, require.
to seek the favor of God, worship him
And believing Faith seeks after the True God. But because of our depravity by nature, we dont seek after God, nor have the ability to !
If we were created in the image of God our true nature is his.
I don’t recall Roman Catholics using the term, but they do apply the concept of it when they say infants are born with a sin stained soul. The teaching of original sin falls under total depravity.
No, "original sin" in Catholicism does not mean the same thing as "total depravity" in Calvinism.
All are born under the curse of original sin, but natural man can still do things to please God - unlike Calvinist total depravity posits, where there is nothing man can do to please God.
Man sinned Rom 5:12 and that caused men to die to God, sin brought alienation and depravity to God, and naturally he remains that way.
It doesn't change a thing..... God know what we are and it ain't depraved.
“What is man, that you are mindful of him,
or the son of man, that you care for him?
7You made him for a little while lower than the angels;
you have crowned him with glory and honor,a
8putting everything in subjection under his feet.”
Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control. At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him.
This is what man IS in the eyes of God and all that God has ever done and doing, is with this in mind.
Man by nature cannot and does not have the ability to choose the True and Living God. God must be revealed to him, Christs very words declare this Matt 11:27
27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Its Christs mission to give some, not all a True Spiritual knowledge of God Jn 17:2-3
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
No man by nature can or does know, choose, desire, or want, seeks the True God Rom 3:10-12
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:14
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
It doesn't change a thing..... God know what we are and it ain't depraved.
“What is man, that you are mindful of him,
or the son of man, that you care for him?
7You made him for a little while lower than the angels;
you have crowned him with glory and honor,a
8putting everything in subjection under his feet.”
Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control. At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him.
This is what man IS in the eyes of God and all that God has ever done and doing, is with this in mind.
You rebelling against the Truth doesnt change anything.
You rebelling against the Truth doesnt change anything.
Rejecting a doctrine of men (a vile doctrine of men too) is not rebelling against the Truth.
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Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?
