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I should have known. Rodger is never interested in having a real conversation with anyone, just in filing huge amounts of data and links to libraries of additional data. I have seen him do this on other boards, maybe he's trolling for search engines to pick up his stuff??
But I guess he has that right, as much as anyone else. I'll try not to allow him to drag me into his scheme again...
Meanwhile, here's a link to another testimony of Jesus Christ:
My "conversation" consists of producing evidence for my claims.
No two words in the history of man have been so torturing as aion and aionion. No two words in the history of man, mishandled by man, have contributed more to the physical, emotional and spiritual harm of so many, than these. You may think I must be exaggerating. But I am not. It is the mistranslation of these two words that has foisted the false and destructive doctrine of eternal torment upon the church and the world.
Mistranslation of the Greek words "aion" and “aionion” is a master stroke of diabolical genius. No other words erroneously translated, could more effectively pervert man’s image of God and cause such widespread confusion. The following work by Joseph E. Kirk is offered in the hope that the serious seeker after scriptural truth will be aided in their quest.
CHART OF GOD’S PLAN FOR THE AGES OF TIME
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.
Also see
AN ANALYTICAL STUDY OF WORDS An Analytical Study of Words (especially note the quotes by the many Greek scholars in chapters three and twelve)
Regarding everlasting torment, Thomas Allin wrote:
If true, can this strange fact be explained - that nobody acts as if they believe it?
I say this, for anyone who so believed, and who possesed but a spark of common humanity--to say nothing of charity -- could not rest, day or night, so long as one sinner remained who might be saved.
To this all would give place, pleasure, learning, business, art, literature; nay, life irself would be too short for the terrible warnings, the burning entreaties, the earnest pleadings, that would be needed.
No society, no individual, can possibly act, or has in fact acted, on such a creed, in the real business of life.
It is simply impossible: who would dare so much as to smile, if they really believe endless torments were certain to be the portion of some member of his household?
Marriage would be a crime, and each birth the occasion of an awful dread.
The shadow of a possible eternal hell would darken every home, and sadden every family hearth."
Methuselah had 969 years to find God and get his life right.
Yet a child may be born to a prostittute, drug addict mother and an alcoholic father (Mafia hit man) who beats his wife and kids every day.
The child grows up on the streets in the ghetto, joins a gang, and is murdered in a shoot out at the age of 14.
According to what we are taught, God says, "Well kid, you had 14 years to find me and get your life straight.
Sadly, you didn't get it right."
In this parable the boy responds by saying
"But why did you give Methuselah 969 years and me only 14 years?"
God's salvation of all those whose lives were cut short will be realized!
For our God is not defeated by circumstances, war, evil, fate, or the length of a human life, for He is GOD! (Ro. 8:31-39).
If God knew from the beginning the world could never be saved, He would not have "sent the Son as Savior of the world" (1Jn. 4:14)
Nor would the apostle John have said Christ was "indeed the Savior of the world" (Jn. 4:42).
Christ can be called Savior if He saves some, but He cannot be called "Savior of the world" unless He saves the world.
Being Almighty and all-knowing, the Father sent Christ to do exactly what He knew He would do.
Thomas Allin wrote, "What are all heresies, all errors, that have stained the Church of God compared with the supreme heresy of dualism, which seats evil on the throne of the universe, a power enduring as God Himself?"
I have good news for you. Christ will not be defeated!
Satan is not on the throne of the universe, the great "I AM" is!
To be simple, after all, only two things are important:
1. Heaven
2. Hell
Three sort of spirits will enter them
1. God
2. Angels
3. Men
For God it is simple, he is always in Heaven, but why? You know, God doesn´t have to do any good work, but yet he is always in heaven, why is this?
Further, God created the Angels in Heaven, but some rebelled against him, they are now know as demons with their faither the Devil/Satan. Why didnt God forgive them, as he had forgiven Mankind?
Further, God also created mankind in Paradise, but we sinned against God, but why must all men/or many men Go to hell, isnt that horrible, is God still just, if he punishes us all or many of us in Hell, a terriyfing idea, dont you think, is horrible, what do you think, is God Holy and Good if he punishes many men in hell, even small children! Oh horrible fact
In studying the OT and NT, I don't see any reference to a Hell. I believe the similarity to greek mythology made this a popular notion, such works such as Dante's Inferno are responsible for the idea some have of hell. In fact, it works well with the Roman Catholic practice of repentance and is very effective in "helping" people fear God or the pope.... Just my Humble opinion. I don't live my life in fear and won't subscribe to the notion of a hell unless you mean here on earth.. the kind we make for ourselves with our mistakes.
Four scriptural expositions expounding Universal Reconciliation
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
In studying the OT and NT, I don't see any reference to a Hell. I believe the similarity to greek mythology made this a popular notion, such works such as Dante's Inferno are responsible for the idea some have of hell. In fact, it works well with the Roman Catholic practice of repentance and is very effective in "helping" people fear God or the pope.... Just my Humble opinion. I don't live my life in fear and won't subscribe to the notion of a hell unless you mean here on earth.. the kind we make for ourselves with our mistakes.
Many people (including me) are unable to love a god who would let anyone suffer forever.
That is why writings like the following were such a help to me.
God’s purposes are not completed in this current age, but worked out in successive ages. (Eph. 2:7) The message of God’s saving work through Christ is glorious, and it is not limited to this lifetime as the orthodox church would have us believe. It is not in God’s plan “to save as many as He can before this life ends” only to throw the rest of His precious creation in the dumper for all eternity. Jesus did not pray for the world, but for those whom the Father gave Him (the disciples). (John 17) Those who are Calvinists will twist this prayer of Jesus to say that God only has intentions to save the elect, while the rest are reserved for never-ending punishment, but they make the same critical mistake that most of Christendom does in that they do not see that God’s purposes for mankind do not end with this life.
THE EONS OF THE BIBLE WITH CONCORDANCE The eons of the Bible With Concordance, God’s purpose of the eons.
Everything will be accomplished in GOD’S TIME, not ours. God’s purpose in this age is to bring a people to Himself (elect) in order to reach the non-elect in the ages to come. He is calling US in order to show forth His kindness to OTHERS in the ages to come. Once you see this truth, you will then understand why most people will never come to Christ in this age. This does not mean God has forsaken the many and given them up to suffer never-ending punishments. The mercy, love, and compassion of our God will never fail and the Good Shepherd will keep on seeking and saving until each and every last sheep (good and bad) is brought into the fold.
The following link is a great expostion on what the Bible teaches about this subject.
God, All in All! God, All in All!
The wages of sin is death. But God, who alone is immortal, will grant eternal life to His redeemed. Until that day death is an unconscious state for all people. When Christ, who is our life, appears, the resurrected righteous and the living righteous will be glorified and caught up to meet their Lord. The second resurrection, the resurrection of the unrighteous, will take place a thousand years later.
Here are the verses I got this from (Rom. 6:23; 1 Tim. 6:15, 16; Eccl. 9:5, 6; Ps. 146:3, 4; John 11:11-14; Col. 3:4; 1 Cor. 15:51-54; 1 Thess. 4:13-17; John 5:28, 29; Rev. 20:1-10.)
Millennium and the End of Sin:
The millennium is the thousand-year reign of Christ with His saints in heaven between the first and second resurrections. During this time the wicked dead will be judged; the earth will be utterly desolate, without living human inhabitants, but occupied by Satan and his angels. At its close Christ with His saints and the Holy City will descend from heaven to earth. The unrighteous dead will then be resurrected, and with Satan and his angels will surround the city; but fire from God will consume them and cleanse the earth. The universe will thus be freed of sin and sinners forever.
On the new earth, in which righteousness dwells, God will provide an eternal home for the redeemed and a perfect environment for everlasting life, love, joy, and learning in His presence. For here God Himself will dwell with His people, and suffering and death will have passed away. The great controversy will be ended, and sin will be no more. All things, animate and inanimate, will declare that God is love; and He shall reign forever. Amen.
(2 Peter 3:13; Isa. 35; 65:17-25; Matt. 5:5; Rev. 21:1-7; 22:1-5; 11:15.)
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aionion NEVER means everlasting
