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Old 10-23-2008, 12:09 AM
 
Location: Road Warrior
2,015 posts, read 4,898,363 times
Reputation: 797

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Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post
You know you are right - absolutely right. And you know what else - democrats and republicans are all really not that different either. ..... Too bad Ron Paul never got any press. Neither has Cynthia McKinney. or Bob Barr. I don't know about the Rev. Baldwin. there are different ideas out there NOT sponsored by big business $$$$$$ that is what all this is really about.
Rev. Baldwin is right, this is also what he says about abortion, isn't Bush pro-life well in his presidency 1 million babies were aborted every year, that is 8 million babies in pro-life Bush's administration, what was he doing about it, NOTHING. The thing is, as the media and the public has already decided from day 1 who they are going to vote for, I don't think it matters that much at this point in supporting a third party over the lesser of two evils - any third party whether Barr, McKinney, Baldwin is a voice of discontent. The lesser of two evils is still evil and in our case the evils of these two lessers to come. The bigger this "other" number, the better - lets say the other number is 6% and Obama 49% McCain 45%, it is a point to say neither Obama nor McCain got a majority, I believe this does makes a statement that Americans are discontent.

The problem as you pointed is our 2 mega-party system, but a 3rd party is highly unlikely unless a business mogul actually funded himself such as Ross Perot or Michael Bloomberg in a poor economic year such as 1992 or 2008. But that of "change in the right direction" from within, is possible, Ron Paul was basically silenced by much of the media but he got 2nd place in many states, Ron also was the single highest internet fundraise in one day and that of the biggest fund raiser from active-duty troops ... Rev. Huckabee who came in 2nd place after McCain after Romney dropped out of the race, are both similar in that they want to rid of the IRS, vow for a smaller government, instill traditional family values back to America and fight for the sanctity of life. Let 2008 be a year of hope and patience where that 2012 can be the real year of "change" in the right direction. God bless.

Last edited by RangerDuke08; 10-23-2008 at 12:18 AM..
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Old 10-23-2008, 10:23 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,673,656 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by technobarbie View Post
If God felt so passionate about the topic of abortion, he would have been very specific about it. No scripture twisting can justify this. The Bible was very specific about sex, but also felt the need to include all the homosexual rhetoric. Why not be very specific about abortion? God should have known in advance that people would be "confused" about the issue, especially when it comes to murdering cells. After all this would have saved "millions" of babies/cells each year.

On a serious note, why not pray for something positive instead of such destruction and hatred. Why do fundamentalist always go this route? Why not pray that people will come to see god's love and seek god's word? Why take the whole country down, which include many of your "brothers and sisters in Christ". Odd logic. I'm glad most Christian I know don't think like this.
The only people that are confused on the issure of abortion are those who do not know their Bible. In the Old Testament it speaks about two men that are fighting, by (accident) one of the men strikes a woman that is pregnant. According to the Old Testament law, if the woman is hurt (or her child) the man that accidently hurt them would be required to pay a fine. Yet, if that man refuses to pay that fine, the Bible states that the man should be put to death, because it is then a (life for a life). The Bible makes clear that the unborn childs life is just as equal as the person who struck the woman by accident. Can you imagine what the Bible would say for some one who actually took the childs life by a medical procedure, and not by an accident. If you seeks Gods Word you will understand that abortion is murder, and God will deal with all people who incorage this sort of thing. What is truly destructive and evil, is abortion.
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Old 10-23-2008, 10:29 AM
 
7,654 posts, read 9,673,656 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerDuke08 View Post
Rev. Baldwin is right, this is also what he says about abortion, isn't Bush pro-life well in his presidency 1 million babies were aborted every year, that is 8 million babies in pro-life Bush's administration, what was he doing about it, NOTHING. The thing is, as the media and the public has already decided from day 1 who they are going to vote for, I don't think it matters that much at this point in supporting a third party over the lesser of two evils - any third party whether Barr, McKinney, Baldwin is a voice of discontent. The lesser of two evils is still evil and in our case the evils of these two lessers to come. The bigger this "other" number, the better - lets say the other number is 6% and Obama 49% McCain 45%, it is a point to say neither Obama nor McCain got a majority, I believe this does makes a statement that Americans are discontent.

The problem as you pointed is our 2 mega-party system, but a 3rd party is highly unlikely unless a business mogul actually funded himself such as Ross Perot or Michael Bloomberg in a poor economic year such as 1992 or 2008. But that of "change in the right direction" from within, is possible, Ron Paul was basically silenced by much of the media but he got 2nd place in many states, Ron also was the single highest internet fundraise in one day and that of the biggest fund raiser from active-duty troops ... Rev. Huckabee who came in 2nd place after McCain after Romney dropped out of the race, are both similar in that they want to rid of the IRS, vow for a smaller government, instill traditional family values back to America and fight for the sanctity of life. Let 2008 be a year of hope and patience where that 2012 can be the real year of "change" in the right direction. God bless.
President Bush was the first President in American history to sign into law a Bill that would stop all late term abortions. This was no small task. Previous Democratic presidents refused to do that. President Bush also has installed Judges to the court that would allow for the rejection of legal abortion laws, a Democratic president would not do that. They would do just the oppsite. Obama has already stated that he is Pro Abortion, McCain is pro life. I'm voting for McCain.
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Old 10-23-2008, 10:59 AM
 
4,439 posts, read 8,059,763 times
Reputation: 1461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
Obama has already stated that he is Pro Abortion, McCain is pro life. I'm voting for McCain.
Yep. Obama Pro Choice and he's got my vote!
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Old 10-23-2008, 11:17 AM
 
3,627 posts, read 12,402,826 times
Reputation: 2682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
The only people that are confused on the issure of abortion are those who do not know their Bible. In the Old Testament it speaks about two men that are fighting, by (accident) one of the men strikes a woman that is pregnant. According to the Old Testament law, if the woman is hurt (or her child) the man that accidently hurt them would be required to pay a fine. Yet, if that man refuses to pay that fine, the Bible states that the man should be put to death, because it is then a (life for a life). The Bible makes clear that the unborn childs life is just as equal as the person who struck the woman by accident. Can you imagine what the Bible would say for some one who actually took the childs life by a medical procedure, and not by an accident. If you seeks Gods Word you will understand that abortion is murder, and God will deal with all people who incorage this sort of thing. What is truly destructive and evil, is abortion.
Doesn't that verse say if the woman LOSES her child [many translations] there will be a fine? The severe injury related to the woman.

Don't get me wrong, I think abortion is wrong, but I am pro-choice and investing that energy into preventing the pregnancies in the first place and finding options to help support the abortion candidate choose life.

I also think letting sentient children starve to death is wrong. I struggle with this part of Exodus because it's all good if you strike your slave and they get up in 1-2 days.
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Old 10-23-2008, 12:47 PM
 
272 posts, read 430,559 times
Reputation: 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Campbell34 View Post
The only people that are confused on the issure of abortion are those who do not know their Bible. In the Old Testament it speaks about two men that are fighting, by (accident) one of the men strikes a woman that is pregnant. According to the Old Testament law, if the woman is hurt (or her child) the man that accidently hurt them would be required to pay a fine. Yet, if that man refuses to pay that fine, the Bible states that the man should be put to death, because it is then a (life for a life). The Bible makes clear that the unborn childs life is just as equal as the person who struck the woman by accident. Can you imagine what the Bible would say for some one who actually took the childs life by a medical procedure, and not by an accident. If you seeks Gods Word you will understand that abortion is murder, and God will deal with all people who incorage this sort of thing. What is truly destructive and evil, is abortion.
You have no idea what schooling, degrees, or profession I've had, so people should really be careful what they assume others don't know about the bible. Your example proves nothing about abortion. A pregnant women was killed and the guy was fined. He broke the law and didn't pay the fine, and because of that, he was put to death. Abortion was not a social issue when the Bible was composed or put together. Homosexuality was and that why it's in the Bible. But this is getting off topic, so we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Old 10-23-2008, 02:27 PM
 
17,497 posts, read 10,123,070 times
Reputation: 6744
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty View Post
So you are a good judge of what the poor need then right?

something about "What you do for the least of these..." comes to mind.
Got to love, those that use the Jesus card, at there convince!!
Maybe, this will help you..........
#62 Knowing what’s best for poor people « Stuff White People Like
America, has NO RIGHT to complain ,there is equal opportunity to everyone of us. This is poor and the American People need to know how good we really have it.....................
YouTube - poor people
Quote:
So since its emotional and as you say "they provide no comfort or support" in your opinion we should just outlaw them.

Should we outlaw cars that provide no comfort or support?

What if my TV doesn't provide comfort or support? Should we ban those too?

This is a free market (to some extent). If one clinic is less supportive than it needs to be another competitor will move into the market if that support is of value to consumers.
I'm sure, there's not much competition, in abortion clinics. Comparing a baby being removed from a womens body as the same support of a car or T.V. is absurb!!!................The Finland researchers found that compared to women who carried to term, women who aborted in the year prior to their deaths were 60 percent more likely to die of natural causes, seven times more likely to die of suicide, four times more likely to die of injuries related to accidents, and 14 times more likely to die from homicide. Researchers believe the higher rate of deaths related to accidents and homicide may be linked to higher rates of suicidal or risk-taking behavior.The leading causes of abortion related maternal deaths within a week of the surgery are hemorrhage, infection, embolism, anesthesia, and undiagnosed ectopic pregnancies. Legal abortion is reported as the fifth leading cause of maternal death in the United States, though in fact it is recognized that most abortion related deaths are not officially reported as such.
As a guy, YOU may not understand, this is much more then just a support on your broken T.V. or Auto. Support the problem that leads up to unwanted pregnancies. Welfare also invites unwanted babies, another government waste.

Quote:
I didn't realize women had to fight today for the use of Birth Control. In fact health plans HAVE to allow for birth control meds (regardless of the employers religious affiliation). That was a big deal once.. its not now.
Well, I don't think these, are the people, that have jobs with health plans, being the ones having abortions. See for the most part people support this as "Womens Rights" and it's our young children, because we have given in to it's, "JUST WHAT KIDS DO"!!!Teenagers, who account for about 30 percent of all abortions, are also at much high risk of suffering many abortion related complications. This is true of both immediate complications, and of long-term reproductive damage.Abortion Risks: A list of major physical complications related to abortion

Quote:
As to Planned Parenthood.. Fortunately we dont' live in a socialist country. Goods and services cost money. Sorry.. they just do. Our healthcare system is private.. companies make money off disease. Big Pharma, Insurance companies.. and every now and then a hospital turns a profit.
As for Planned Parenthood, it needs to do the job that TAX PAYERS, pay them to do. It's not to hand out 20 condoms to one kid and when another comes in, right behind the first hand him 20 more. This happened to 5 kids on a dare one was my son at the age of 14.

They never asked, if they knew how to use them or that maybe sex and an unwanted child was something they might want to hold off on. Offer counseling, to prevent more unwanted children. They are in it for the money and not to help the people. There is a good side, but as we have seen with ACORN there's always an UGLY side also. I'm not saying to ban the Planned Parenthood, but it defiantly needs to be kept an eye on.
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Old 10-23-2008, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
2,739 posts, read 7,641,558 times
Reputation: 1963
Quote:
Originally Posted by grannynancy View Post

McCain attends a baptist church with his wife but is not a member nor has he been baptized, other than as an infant. Therefore my logical assumption is to fundamentalist Christians McCain is not a Christian. Does that not bother them?

Sure, that possibility bothers us: that he/they are not really a Christian. But what can we do about it? And... I have exactly the same doubts about Obama, for that matter. I think politicians will lie about being "saved", just to ensure getting the Christian votes. Personally, I won't vote for either McCain or Obama. I'm voting for Chuck Baldwin, a Baptist pastor...

Bud
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Old 10-23-2008, 02:49 PM
 
3,627 posts, read 12,402,826 times
Reputation: 2682
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
Sure, that possibility bothers us: that he/they are not really a Christian. But what can we do about it? And... I have exactly the same doubts about Obama, for that matter. I think politicians will lie about being "saved", just to ensure getting the Christian votes. Personally, I won't vote for either McCain or Obama. I'm voting for Chuck Baldwin, a Baptist pastor...

Bud
Actually when I did post that it was in response to a poster who questioned Obama's Christianity and posted as such - a McCain supporter who did not put the same kind of scrutiny on McCain. That was actually why I made that post.

It does not bother ME if one is not a Christian - unless they are claiming they are and are not. I am not going to call someone who has professed being a Chrisitian a "non-Christian" if they have a different understanding of the teachings of Jesus than I might.
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Old 10-23-2008, 03:01 PM
 
17,497 posts, read 10,123,070 times
Reputation: 6744
Quote:
Originally Posted by arod0331 View Post
Woah! Where are you getting this?
If anything it's the conservative and fundamentalist types who don't want birth control; they promote abstinence only and letting gawd decide who will have children.
Shouldn't be used for birth control.............
Using abortion as birth control is not healthy physically or psychologically, and is not a mature or responsible approach to sex. Women obtaining abortions are at higher risk for reproductive tract infections, including HIV and PID. If you are using abortion as birth control, you are encouraged to rethink your sexual decisions. You might wait on sex until you find a relationship where you could continue a pregnancy should one occur.
Contraceptive Info :: Abortion as Birth Control OR....Concerned Women for America - Abortion as Birth Control (http://www.cwfa.org/articles/10589/BLI/dotcommentary/index.htm - broken link)
The real shocker, though, is that it is more common for women to have repeat abortions (some four or more) and to have abortions after already giving birth to living children. Obviously, 25-year-old women and women who are already mothers should know how to exercise self-control and to use contraceptives responsibly and effectively.
Abortion for some is not a one time decision. One MUST learn from their actions or they will repeat them. Is this my fault or yours, that others don't know how, to have responsible sex??
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