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I dont think we need a recipe for chocolate chip cookie even if we may want one.
I believe many here have made some good points. We must remember we are commanded to test the spirits and in our sin nature, even as Christians, we will misunderstand the spirits and follow after what tickles our ears. This is why we need the scriptures as Fundamantalist pointed out with 2 Timothy 3:16. This is why so many of the other books did not make the cut because they did not line up with the scriptures of the time which was our OT.
According to a vote of politically motivated highseats.
There are many, many, books that should have been Cannon, that were not because a various control issues.
Odes of Solomon are singularly the most beautiful of all the scriptures, written by an anonymous Saint that never saw death.
Nicodemus explains Satan's fall to the Power of Christ, as Jesus went down to the nether regions to release the prisoners held captive.
The Book of Enoch, explains the gifts and powers that were given to Enoch ( the first born of many) by God. One of which is the Enochian Calendar that we use to this day. The knowledge of becoming Translated that one need not taste of death, and many examples of the power of the Holy Ghost wielded upon unrighteousness, and conveyed upon the Elect.
The book of Techla ( a convert of Paul) documents her life, and how she was put to death numerous times, and God came to her rescue everytime, until she was caught up to dwell with Him, never tasting of death.
The Gospel according to Mary (the Virgin).
How believers can be fearful of these incredible witnesses is just shocking and sad.
That said: One that is livicated to God and Christ, need not even know how to read, as was the case for millions of believers.
Very understandable and good points, but usually these books did not meet the Criteria God set forth for canon. I will not argue against many of these books being good for study because some were quoted by the Apostles, but the point I am making is that some of these books outright contradict the other scriptures and therefor are not considered untainted. Many of the books did not even exist until after the canon and those which were presented at the time of the canon had mistakes in them such a geographical and historical inacuracies.
I am trying to figure out what 2 Timothy 3:12 has to do with this conversation. Timothy very well could be called an Apostle, or Elder, or any of the titles given to men who were trained in teaching. Notice this verse in the same chapter that you quoted:
2Ti 3:12
Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.
So, how many of you are persecuted?
Also:
2Ti 3:6
For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
How many are this way? My grandmother was captivated by ministers in the past, as are many, many, many today. Todd Bentley case in point..
2Ti 3:8
Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these {men} also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith. But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all, just as Jannes's and Jambres's folly was also.
Why will it become obvious? Ahh, no Power of the Spirit. Now, the "capstone" so to speak:
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, EQUIPPED for every GOOD WORK.
Is a"good work" Life? Is a"good work" Love? Is a"good work" Worship? Is a "good work" traditional?
I would think the "good work" means just that,,,good works. But work is just that,,,work.
1) business, employment, that which any one is occupied a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking 2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind 3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
I am trying to figure out what 2 Timothy 3:12 has to do with this conversation. Timothy very well could be called an Apostle, or Elder, or any of the titles given to men who were trained in teaching. Notice this verse in the same chapter that you quoted:
2Ti 3:12
Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.
So, how many of you are persecuted?
Have you seen how Christians are reguarded in todays society. The Bible has been banned from many schools. The Ten Commandments have been banned from public places. Christian Holidays have constantly been attacked. Children are forbidden to pray out loud or privately in schools. College students have been forbidden, even threatened with imprisonment, if they even mention the name of Jesus Christ.
Quote:
2Ti 3:6
Quote:
For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
How many are this way? My grandmother was captivated by ministers in the past, as are many, many, many today. Todd Bentley case in point..
Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar, Jim Jones, Charles Manson, Oprah Winfrey and the list goes on and on.
Quote:
2Ti 3:8
Quote:
Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these {men} also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith. But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all, just as Jannes's and Jambres's folly was also.
Why will it become obvious? Ahh, no Power of the Spirit. Now, the "capstone" so to speak:
The time will come soon, but as we have agreed there are plenty we both see in the earlier list.
Quote:
2Ti 3:16
Quote:
All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, EQUIPPED for every GOOD WORK.
Is a"good work" Life? Is a"good work" Love? Is a"good work" Worship? Is a "good work" traditional?
I would think the "good work" means just that,,,good works. But work is just that,,,work.
1) business, employment, that which any one is occupied a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking 2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind 3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work
Actually it can be just about anything you do as your definition pretty much points out.
Have you seen how Christians are reguarded in todays society. The Bible has been banned from many schools. The Ten Commandments have been banned from public places. Christian Holidays have constantly been attacked. Children are forbidden to pray out loud or privately in schools. College students have been forbidden, even threatened with imprisonment, if they even mention the name of Jesus Christ..
I would hardly consider that persecution. Just because Christians cannot do the things they once did, doesn't mean they are stoned, crucified, or eaten, or whipped. Freedom is only found IN Christ, not the government. The government gives and takes rights away. Christ just gives, to the death, His Love to set us free. How we live IN this freedom, is what persecutes us, as it is contrary to government. In other words, we do not submit to any authority except Christ as King, and those governments who respect that freedom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69
Actually it can be just about anything you do as your definition pretty much points out.
Christians in the USA may not be persecuted to the extent that was just mentioned, but they are all across the world. Take Islamic countries where it is illegal to be Christians, and the punishment is death (for it brings dishonor to the family). That seems like persecution to me. Or what about China, where Christians are jailed and abused?
We in America are spoiled. We think that people not letting us post the 10 Commandments or sing our songs in schools is persecution. It sucks, yeah, and it is tragic, but it isn't the same persecution that our brothers and sisters face in a myriad of other nations. Just think what we are free to do here.
1) Anyone can attend church, any day of the week, and it is safe
2) Look at all the "Christian" books, music, videos, etc. that is out there
3) We can gather and protest in public the removal of the 10 Commandments
4) Regardless of what you think of his politics, we have a President about to step down that is Christian and started his days by praying.
5) I can scream "HALLELUJAH" at the top of my lungs, anywhere (people may think I'm strange and laugh, but I'm allowed to do it.
The list could go on and on. Yeah, we are regarded as old fashioned, and not with the times, but that shouldn't be something to whine about, it should motivate us to work within culture to show the truth to others and to let them know that God isn't obsolete, that the Bible is just as relevant in the 21st century as it ever was. We should be excited to get out and do!
I was just reading through a thread and one poster said to another..."well, I know that you believe this, but where is that in the Bible?". My question is, what if we don't have the 'whole' story. I mean, really, there is a lot missing from the Bible. We know that Noah was instructed to build the ark. We know that it rained for 40 days and 40 nights, but what was going on while all that rain was coming down? We know that Jesus was born to a virgin in a stable and we know that He died on a cross to save us of our sins. But we only know a little of the 'in between' years. So what's to say that just because it isn't in the Bible, it isn't true?
Just wanting to hear some of your thoughts...
I totally agree. The bible is RS100 not the graduate thesis. This is why you need to look at the circumstances under which advice was given in the bible. When you understand the intent, you can begin to apply it to other areas that are not, specifically, written about. You can't just take things and apply them verbatim to every situation.
I totally agree. The bible is RS100 not the graduate thesis. This is why you need to look at the circumstances under which advice was given in the bible. When you understand the intent, you can begin to apply it to other areas that are not, specifically, written about. You can't just take things and apply them verbatim to every situation.
The bible answers every problem man has. Are you saying, no?
I would hardly consider that persecution. Just because Christians cannot do the things they once did, doesn't mean they are stoned, crucified, or eaten, or whipped. Freedom is only found IN Christ, not the government. The government gives and takes rights away. Christ just gives, to the death, His Love to set us free. How we live IN this freedom, is what persecutes us, as it is contrary to government. In other words, we do not submit to any authority except Christ as King, and those governments who respect that freedom.
Well if you want those persicusions then take a look at the Middle East, China, India, Africa. Rapes, murder, beheadings, imprisonment, beatings in all these places just for being a Christian. Look at Mumbai, they deliberately targeted Christians and Jews. Other Countries hate the US for being what they consider a Christian nation. Have you bothered to see what is happening around out country from the gay radicals. They are invading our churches, threatening and beating Christians in the streets, a 69 year old woman was attacked and beaten by gay protesters for carrying a cross in an anti protest. Laws are being proposed and will probably get passed within the next ten years that will make reading from the scriptures anything that is offensive to another a hate crime. Canada already has such laws and has locked up a pastor for preaching against homosexuality. A boy who was afraid for his life got a gun and killed a bully in school. The bully was gay and they are trying to prosecute the boy for a hate crime. All you have to do is look at the news and you will see persicution of Christianity on many levels.
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I totally agree. The bible is RS100 not the graduate thesis. This is why you need to look at the circumstances under which advice was given in the bible. When you understand the intent, you can begin to apply it to other areas that are not, specifically, written about. You can't just take things and apply them verbatim to every situation.
