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It's right there in the scriptures. He said it, I believe it! The end of the story.
"Unto me every knee shall bow, unto me every tongue shall confess, You are Lord to the glory of God the Father."
"From him everything comes, through him everything exists, in him everything ends."
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May grace and peace be granted to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has crowned us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms in Christ; even as, in His love, He chose us as His own in Christ before the creation of the world, that we might be holy and without blemish in His presence. For He pre-destined us to be adopted by Himself as sons through Jesus Christ--such being His gracious will and pleasure-- to the praise of the splendour of His grace with which He has enriched us in the beloved One.It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him.
"It follows then that just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which extends to the whole race, so also the result of a single decree of righteousness is a life-giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. For as through the disobedience of the one individual the mass of mankind were constituted sinners, so also through the obedience of the One the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now Law was brought in later on, so that transgression might increase. But where sin increased, grace has overflowed."
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For seeing that death came through man, through man comes also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For just as through Adam all die, so also through Christ all will be made alive again.
23 But this will happen to each in the right order--Christ having been the first to rise, and afterwards Christ's people rising at His return.
24 ¶ Later on, comes the End, when He is to surrender the Kingship to God, the Father, when He shall have overthrown all other government and all other authority and power.
25 For He must continue King until He shall have put all His enemies under His feet.
26 The last enemy that is to be overthrown is Death;
27 for He will have put all things in subjection under His feet. And when He shall have declared that "All things are in subjection," it will be with the manifest exception of Him who has reduced them all to subjection to Him.
28 But when the whole universe has been made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also become subject to Him who has made the universe subject to Him, in order that GOD may be all in all.
the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation
And I think that's worth examining.
As with the early history of Israel, we have maintained our status as a stiff necked creation. After all that the Lord had done for them (and us), after all his mighty power and special favor manifested in their (and our) behalf, sufficient it would seem to confirm their faith forever, still they were (and we are) ready to throw all this away, turn (our) backs on the Lord and go back to the land of darkness and bondage. It seemed like an utter failure of all the Lord's efforts to make anything good of this faithless people; and seems appropriate to let them go to their own destruction, the plan has failed so far as they are concerned. It is just at this moment of dire disaster and cowardly failure, in the very midst of the apparent defeat of the Lord's most cherished hopes, and while he pronounces the doom of that recreant generation, that he at the same time declares, in a sort of prophetic undertone, and yet with all the confidence of omnipotence, "But,"-notwithstanding this apparent failure-"as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the Lord."Here again is the thought made prominent that the failure of the creature does not handicap the Creator; he has his own way at last, and works his sovereign will just the same.
Has the Lord's purpose concerning them failed? Has he thus been balked in his plans, and prevented from carrying them out because he could not make of them what he set out to make? No, not at all; the Lord knew before he began just how the experiment would turn out. It was no experiment with him. "Known unto the Lord are all his works from the beginning." He is not taken by surprise; he is not disappointed; he meets no unforeseen difficulties nor unexpected obstacles, but everything is known and taken into account and provided for before hand. But will the Lord yet vindicate his wisdom and power in regard to this people? Yes, he most certainly will. The Bible most positively teaches that the Lord will yet take this people in hand again, and then he will accomplish all his will in them, and that he will do this on his own account in order to manifest to all nations his wisdom and power. Now notice how all this is brought out in the scriptures. The Lord says-(Isa. 43: 25) "I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake and will not remember thy sins." Mark you, the Lord blots out their transgressions for his own sake. He is personally interested in the matter on his own account, and therefore he blots out their sins.
Isa. 48:8-11.
"Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened; for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a trangressor from the womb. For my name's sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain from thee, that I cut thee not off. Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction. For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it; for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another."
Why or Why not? List scriptures to prove your beliefs.
If you created some children and they went astray, and then you had the other children's did not disobey you. You love them so much, and then there was an argument among the good children, and he was an honorable father. So in a way you've had to be honorable to those children that did not disobey, but to bring justice to the ones that disobey. You would try to save some of those children, but what happens to the ones that don't want to be saved, and you had to bring justice and righteousness to those that did obey. As a father I would have to separate the ones that went astray and went on their own, and become a loving father to those who did to forgive them. And they would say to their brothers and sisters please forgive me for I know not what I do. But the one that disobey were separated from their fathers and children for evermore in total darkness.
If you created some children and they went astray, and then you had the other children's did not disobey you. You love them so much, and then there was an argument among the good children, and he was an honorable father. So in a way you've had to be honorable to those children that did not disobey, but to bring justice to the ones that disobey. You would try to save some of those children, but what happens to the ones that don't want to be saved, and you had to bring justice and righteousness to those that did obey. As a father I would have to separate the ones that went astray and went on their own, and become a loving father to those who did to forgive them. And they would say to their brothers and sisters please forgive me for I know not what I do. But the one that disobey were separated from their fathers and children for evermore in total darkness.
"If I created" has nothing to do with His plan, His heart or His will. That is the first mistake we make as mortals, to compare Him to us. It's idolatry.
Fully destroyed...........and cease to exist.............means what to you? Destruction..............? Perish...............?
Sorry, Betsey I didn't see this post until now. But I'm stumped. Not sure what you're asking me? The word 'perish' means to "fully destroy." What does that mean to you? If you put a piece of paper in the fire it becomes 'fully destroyed' or turns to ashes. No? Doesn't it then 'cease to exsist?
Jude 7 reads......as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in similar manner to these, have given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jude 12-13 reads........(12). These are spots in your love feast, while they feast with you without fear, serving only themselves. They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruits, twice dead, pulled up by the roots,
(13). raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
2 Thess. 9 reads..........These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.
Rev. 14: 11 reads........"And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever: and they have no rest day and night, who worship the beat and his image, and receives the mark of his name.
Rev. 19: 3 reads........Again they said, "Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!"
Rev. 20: 10 reads.........The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And, they will be tormentedday and night forever and ever.
I know alot of you like to take the argument of CONTEXT. So read the entire scriptures for yourselves, place them in whatever "context" you want, yet God's Words remain the same, yes, forever and ever................for eternity, for everlasting, undestructable, ages to ages, infinity.
If you're looking for a "feel good" gospel: "Oh God is such a loving God, He won't send anyone to hell forever"; you are deluding yourselves, people. It's right there in the scriptures. He said it, I believe it! End of story. Stop looking for excuses to keep on sinning. It is, what it is..............and hell is .............forever!
Sorry, no "feel good" story here, or I'm only as good as a liar and I refuse to do it to you.
Love Betsey.
quote: are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of *eternal fire.
Question Betsey...If God meant that *eternal fire meant for ever and ever (as you are implying) then I have to ask you. Do these cities still exsist today? Are they still burning? As they would have to bea IF their 'fire' was eternal. Or were they DESTROYED for ever and ever?
2 Thess. 9 reads..........These shall be punished with everlasting *destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.
*destruction. Again I remind you destruction means to fully destroy.
Rev. 14: 11 reads........"And the smoke of their torment *ascends forever and ever: and they have no rest day and night, who worship the beat and his image, and receives the mark of his name.
Psa. 37:20 But the wicked shall *perish, (be fully destroyed) and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
Q.What happens to something when it consumes away?
Q.When 'fat' hits the fire what happens to it? Does it ascend upward (to heaven) for ever and ever? Or is it gone for ever and ever?
Rev. 19: 3 reads........Again they said, "Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!"
Q. Same as above.
quote:I know alot of you like to take the argument of CONTEXT. So read the entire scriptures for yourselves, place them in whatever "context" you want, yet God's Words remain the same, yes, *forever and ever................for eternity, for everlasting, undestructable, ages to ages, infinity.
*for ever and ever in the O.T. is 'olam.' Olam has a beginning and and end. The shortest 'olam' was 3 1/2 days. The time that Jonah was in the belly of the whale.
Jon 2:6 I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever( olam) yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
quote:If you're looking for a "feel good" gospel: "Oh God is such a loving God, He won't send anyone to hell forever"; you are deluding yourselves, people. It's right there in the scriptures. He said it, I believe it! End of story. Stop looking for excuses to keep on sinning. It is, what it is..............and hell is .............forever!
I'm really sorry Betsey, but not only did God NOT say the wicked will endure punishment for ever. He said they will be DESTROYED!! By insisting that God would do that to His enemies you are making a liar out of God. Insisting that He would do the very thing He told his own people they were doing when they put their children in the fire. He said they were PROFANING HIS NAME when they did that.
Le 18:21 And thou shalt not let any of thy seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD
It's, for me, not about a "feel good" story. Me word, Betsey I love God too much to profane His HOLY, HOLY Name by teaching He is a monster that WANTS His enemies to fry like bacon for all eternity!!
YES, He IS a JUST God, but He's also a FAIR God. Let the punishment fit the crime. His enemies punishement will be NEVER to be in God's presence again!! Isn't that punishment enough. God thinks so!!
If you put a piece of paper in the fire it becomes 'fully destroyed' or turns to ashes. No? Doesn't it then 'cease to exsist?
It's scientifically proven that fire changes the composition of matter into another form. Anyway, it's what is exposed to fire that will be changed, and the separation of soul and spirit is going on even now in our lives.
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Children of disobedience
You love them so much, and then there was an argument among the good children,
and he was an honorable father.
So in a way you've had to be honorable to those children that did not disobey,
but to bring justice to the ones that disobey.
You would try to save some of those children,
but what happens to the ones that don't want to be saved,
and you had to bring justice and righteousness to those that did obey.
As a father I would have to separate the ones that went astray and went on their own, 
That is the first mistake we make as mortals, to compare Him to us. It's idolatry.
