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Old 02-07-2009, 07:49 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 2,646,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
1 John 1:8-1 John 2:1-1

"If we say we have no sin, we are deceving ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins. He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sin and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
My little children, I am writing these things to you that you may not sin, and if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous"
Harold, I quoted all of 1 John 1:5 - 2:7 in another thread, and I don't believe you ever responded to it. What do you believe John is saying in these verses?
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Old 02-07-2009, 09:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
Harold, I quoted all of 1 John 1:5 - 2:7 in another thread, and I don't believe you ever responded to it. What do you believe John is saying in these verses?
Regarding the first verse, John is speaking of the need for a Savior. We are all born into sin, and therefore are sinners. If we say we don't have sin, before being born-again, we are liars. Have you ever heard those who claim that they don't need to be saved from anything? They don't believe we are born sinners? These people are liars and the truth is not in them.
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Old 02-07-2009, 11:24 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Regarding the first verse, John is speaking of the need for a Savior. We are all born into sin, and therefore are sinners. If we say we don't have sin, before being born-again, we are liars. Have you ever heard those who claim that they don't need to be saved from anything? They don't believe we are born sinners? These people are liars and the truth is not in them.
Why didn't you read the whole thing, from 1 John 1:5 - 2:7? He is talking to brethren, those already saved.
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Old 02-07-2009, 11:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
Why didn't you read the whole thing, from 1 John 1:5 - 2:7? He is talking to brethren, those already saved.
1 John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

John is writing to tell us not to sin. This is the standard for holiness, and our reasonable service. But, if someone falls from Grace, they need to cry out with godly sorrow to Jesus, which means being determined not to commit that sin again.

An attitude that everybody sins is not godly sorrow; it's an excuse to give into the flesh.
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Old 02-07-2009, 12:17 PM
 
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How could harold have missed "and if we sin, we have an advocate with the father."?
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Old 02-07-2009, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
1 John 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

John is writing to tell us not to sin. This is the standard for holiness, and our reasonable service. But, if someone falls from Grace, they need to cry out with godly sorrow to Jesus, which means being determined not to commit that sin again.

An attitude that everybody sins is not godly sorrow; it's an excuse to give into the flesh.
I totally agree. But the Kupps do not. Which is why I asked Harold how he explains those verses.
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Old 02-07-2009, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Arizona
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so much the more also Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.
The former priests, on the one hand, existed in greater numbers because they were prevented by death from continuing,
but Jesus, on the other hand, because He continues forever, holds His priesthood permanently.
Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him,
since He always lives to make intercession for them.

Hebrews 7:22-25
Grace is not a license to sin, but the expression of God's love - evidenced on the cross.
Those who love God - don't love sin.
But despite our every best effort, we'll never attain perfection.
If we could, we wouldn't need Jesus, for we could save ourselves.
However, perfection will always be out of reach and so God makes us ceremonially clean through the blood of His Son.
We must continually cling to Him - for in Him is Life.
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Old 02-07-2009, 12:58 PM
 
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We need to understand that we can do nothing in and of ourselves; but through Christ Jesus, and His Divine blood, He can purge us into God's perfection. The modern church has stripped God's power out of their message.

(1 John 3:2-3) "Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure."

How can we be purified and still commit willful sins? It takes yielding to Jesus, fasting, prayer and living in the word to be purified. We are to walk like Jesus and talk like Jesus. There is to be no more gossiping, lying, cheating, backbiting, whisperings, etc...
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Old 02-07-2009, 01:08 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 941,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curlythecosmo View Post
Praise be to our God!
As I sit and read these threads and ponder upon them, bringing them before the Father in prayer as for my heart aches at what I have read. The anger, hate, rebukes, of those who call themselves saints of God!
And the Lord brings to my heart....the beloved John in his recording of what the Lord spoke to His disciples....

John 16:1-4
These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble. They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me.
But these things I have told you, that when the time comes, you may remember that I told you of them. And these things I did not say to you at the beginning, because I was with you.

Blessings to you, Harold and Donna!!! God is faithful and His word does not come back void, but accomplishes that it was sent forth to do!
Praise His holy name!!!
Yes His Word doesnt' come back void and His Word says we have an advocate. IF we are sinless or can become sinless than why would we even need an advocate.

1Jo 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

His Word says we do sin:

1 Jo. 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If we ARE sinless then why would we have to confess our sins?

1 Jo 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

God's Words says anyone who teaches we can become sinless doesnt' have God's Word in them.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

The doctrine of 'sinlessness' is contrary to God's Word. It needs to be rebuked. Why? You said it yourself:

Quote:
These things I have spoken to you, that you should not be made to stumble.
Harold and Donna's teaching of sinlessness causes those
who are 'young' in the Lord to stumble.
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Old 02-07-2009, 01:32 PM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
2,739 posts, read 5,569,947 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
1 John 2

An attitude that everybody sins is not godly sorrow; it's an excuse to give into the flesh.

I think clarification may be in order: i don't believe it is an "attitude" or an excuse; it is just telling the truth. Everybody sins. There are recent threads on this forum that basically (but adamantly) claim "no...not everybody sins". However, the Bible plainly says "he who says he has no sin...is a liar...and the truth is not in him".
It is not referring to those who sin "before becoming saved". That epistle was written to the brethryn (believers) It does say if we sin, we have an advocate with the Father. (Jesus)
Please explain how non-believers could possibly have an advocate with the Father? They can't. They can't get their sins forgiven, without becoming saved. They can't continue on being unsaved, and still have their sins forgiven. Doesn't work that way. They might have an advocate with the devil, but not with God. We have to become saved first, then we have an advocate with the Father: Jesus. Without Him, there would be absolutely no hope for any of us.

All the above is not saying to go on ahead and develop a careless "attitude"... that we can go around blatantly sinning just as we did when we weren't saved...that's not it at all. No, we are to put off the old man of the flesh and carnal mind, to grow, to gain in wisdom, to learn to become holy. It is a day by day process. A person is never a brand-new Christian one day, and a pastor or elder the very next. It takes time...

Bud
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