Jesus is God (women, Messiah, evolution, philosophy)

[Miss Shawn_2828]

Shana, I hope that you don't think that I'm arguing with you because I'm not. We just disagree about the equality of the Son and The Holy Spirit.

In the first chapter of Hebrews, however, the comparison made there between the Lord Jesus Christ and angels is clearly one of nature. The Greek kreitton being a term descriptive of quality, ergo, Christ was qualitatively better than the angels because He was their Creator (Colossians 1:16-17), and as such He existed before all things and by Him all things consist (vv. 17-19). Since His intrinsic nature is that of Deity (John 8:58; cf. Colossians 2:9); therefore, qualitatively speaking he was God manifest in the flesh, while quantitatively He was limited as a man and could in all truthfulness state, "My Father is greater than I.

But in actuality the comparison between Christ and His Father in that context and verse clearly indicates that Jesus was speaking as a man and not as the second person of the Trinity ( Dieity) (John 1:1). Therefore, it is perfectly understandable that He should humble Himself before His Father and declare that in the present form in which He found himself, His Father certainly was "greater," positionally, than He as a man.

I agree and go by scripture. When Jesus was speaking and saying that His Father was greater, He was a man, and not speaking from the second person of the trinity, but from a man who was walking on the earth.

This is how I read scripture and I don't see you as the enemy or discredit what you believe because I don't. I believe everything that you believe, but the only difference is that I believe that the Son and the Holy Spirit are equal.

Oh, yea and what I meant by the original post was people who believe in God, who do not believe that Jesus is God. There are so many people who say that they believe in God, but only limit Jesus to a prophet and such. That is what I meant.

[Miss Shawn_2828]

Thanks again, I enjoyed talking with You.

[ShanaBrown]

Shana, I hope that you don't think that I'm arguing with you because I'm not. We just disagree about the equality of the Son and The Holy Spirit.

Thank you, Shawn, I do really appreciate that you do not see me as an enemy.

In the first chapter of Hebrews, however, the comparison made there between the Lord Jesus Christ and angels is clearly one of nature. The Greek kreitton being a term descriptive of quality, ergo, Christ was qualitatively better than the angels because He was their Creator (Colossians 1:16-17), and as such He existed before all things and by Him all things consist (vv. 17-19).

I see this, agree with this, that Christ was qualitatively better than the angels. All things came into being by/through (looking at several translations) Him and that in Him all things consist. He is said to be the first born of all creation. God made all things through Him (Hebrews 1), the only begotten Son of God.

Since His intrinsic nature is that of Deity (John 8:58; cf. Colossians 2:9); therefore, qualitatively speaking he was God manifest in the flesh, while quantitatively He was limited as a man and could in all truthfulness state, "My Father is greater than I.

John 8:58, I have in this NAS (literally) , vs. 58, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I came into being"

and my notes have that Biblical scholars are not clear on what the phrase, "before Abraham was, I am" means as translated in some translations. I see this meaning one of 2 things, that the Word (Jesus) came into being before Abraham, or that Jesus as the image and revelation of the invisible God as pointing them to the Father who is without beginning or end. All of the fulness of the Deity dwelled in Him, I agree. He came to show us who the Father was being filled with the Spirit of God. He represents the Father. Again the Father is the source.

1 Corinthians 8:
4Concerning the eating then of the things sacrificed to idols, we have known that an idol [is] nothing in the world, and that there is no other God except one;
5for even if there are those called gods, whether in heaven, whether upon earth -- as there are gods many and lords many -- 6yet to us [is] one God, the Father, of whom [are] the all things, and we to Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom [are] the all things, and we through Him;

But in actuality the comparison between Christ and His Father in that context and verse clearly indicates that Jesus was speaking as a man and not as the second person of the Trinity ( Dieity) (John 1:1). Therefore, it is perfectly understandable that He should humble Himself before His Father and declare that in the present form in which He found himself, His Father certainly was "greater," positionally, than He as a man.

I understand what you are saying, but what I am understanding is that although Jesus was positionally lower as a man, the source of all things is the Father, according to the passage in 1 Corinthians. Even when Jesus went to heaven after His resurrection, He went to be at the right hand of the Father, and eventually, He will be subject to the Father, even in heaven.

I agree and go by scripture.

Me too, Shawn.

When Jesus was speaking and saying that His Father was greater, He was a man, and not speaking from the second person of the trinity, but from a man who was walking on the earth.

I believe that when Jesus said that the Father was greater, that He meant that all things come from the Father, that the Father is the source of all things, including Himself. This agrees with the passage in 1 Corinthians. He is the Word of God made flesh and the Word comes forth from the Father. Jesus is still a man although He has been resurrected and glorified, and is at the right hand of the Father. Eventually He will deliver the kingdom up to the Father and be subject to the Father. Deliver up means that the Father and the Son will not be reigning over the kingdom co-equally to me, and being subject to another, means that one is over the other.

Oh, yea and what I meant by the original post was people who believe in God, who do not believe that Jesus is God. There are so many people who say that they believe in God, but only limit Jesus to a prophet and such. That is what I meant.

Okay, thanks for clarifying. I do believe that Jesus is much more than a prophet. He is the Son of God, the exact image of God, the Word of God made flesh, the representative of God, the only begotten God, the Bread of Life, The Way and the Truth and the Life, our Savior, and more, and I understand Him to be God in the relative sense, deriving His divinity from the Father. Thanks and God bless.

[Miss Shawn_2828]

Once again I enjoy speaking with you, talk to you later.

[MysticPhD]

I realize that titles and authority, degrees of power, and specific positions in kingdoms, etc. are all relevant concerns to most Christians . . as they were to the primitive minds of the ancients. But God is ALL there is and God is consciousness providing the universal field that defines the reality we live in. (If God were to change "thoughts" our reality would change) All consciousness is pure vibratory energy that exists in several states and it can be in resonance or dissonance with God's Consciousness.(There are probably myriad sources of consciousness throughout the entire universe . . . not just us) Human consciousness is generally NOT in resonance with God Consciousness because it is carnal and "embryonic" (in the "womb" of our physical body) separated from God's Consciousness until it is reborn as Spirit.

Spirit is the stage of consciousness that casts off the physical limitations of the body and is pure energy. No human consciousness would be in resonance with God's consciousness . . . if not for Jesus. God put His consciousness in Jesus (a human physical "womb" . . . hence "begotten"). Since Jesus's consciousness is in resonance with God (despite being in the physical body) it provided a WAY for all human consciousness to connect with God (despite our sinful natures) . . . once Jesus was reborn (resurrected) as Spirit (Holy Spirit). Since Jesus was reborn as Spirit and remains part of human consciousness . . . we ALL have access to Him in our consciousness for guidance and support as we endure to the end. Since God, Jesus and the Holy spirit are ALL the SAME consciousness . . . of course they are ONE. How could Jesus NOT be God?

ALL human consciousness that matures enough to be reborn as Spirit upon death NOW (since the resurrection) has a connection to God through Jesus's consciousness. WE become part of Jesus's consciousness through LOVE (not through our "works" or spiritual achievements or merit or whatever). The critical part is achieving ENOUGH spiritual maturity to be reborn as Spirit and not miscarry or abort. I realize this is not the usual and certainly not the predominant view . . . but it is my witness.

[ShanaBrown]

Once again I enjoy speaking with you, talk to you later.

Me too, Shawn. Thanks and okay. Good night and God bless.

[Miss Shawn_2828]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

I realize that titles and authority, degrees of power, and specific positions in kingdoms, etc. are all relevant concerns to most Christians . . as they were to the primitive minds of the ancients. But God is ALL there is and God is consciousness providing the universal field that defines the reality we live in. (If God were to change "thoughts" our reality would change) All consciousness is pure vibratory energy that exists in several states and it can be in resonance or dissonance with God's Consciousness.(There are probably myriad sources of consciousness throughout the entire universe . . . not just us) Human consciousness is generally NOT in resonance with God Consciousness because it is carnal and "embryonic" (in the "womb" of our physical body) separated from God's Consciousness until it is reborn as Spirit.

Spirit is the stage of consciousness that casts off the physical limitations of the body and is pure energy. No human consciousness would be in resonance with God's consciousness . . . if not for Jesus. God put His consciousness in Jesus (a human physical "womb" . . . hence "begotten"). Since Jesus's consciousness is in resonance with God (despite being in the physical body) it provided a WAY for all human consciousness to connect with God (despite our sinful natures) . . . once Jesus was reborn (resurrected) as Spirit (Holy Spirit). Since Jesus was reborn as Spirit and remains part of human consciousness . . . we ALL have access to Him in our consciousness for guidance and support as we endure to the end. Since God, Jesus and the Holy spirit are ALL the SAME consciousness . . . of course they are ONE. How could Jesus NOT be God?

ALL human consciousness that matures enough to be reborn as Spirit upon death NOW (since the resurrection) has a connection to God through Jesus's consciousness. WE become part of Jesus's consciousness through LOVE (not through our "works" or spiritual achievements or merit or whatever). The critical part is achieving ENOUGH spiritual maturity to be reborn as Spirit and not miscarry or abort. I realize this is not the usual and certainly not the predominant view . . . but it is my witness.

Yes, I agree that this is a very unique way of looking or explaining God. I find this a bit odd, but I'm not stating that you are wrong. I think that we are looking at the same thing but thinking about it in a different light. Did you come up with this on your own or was you taught this. Just courious.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by shawn_2828

Yes, I agree that this is a very unique way of looking or explaining God. I find this a bit odd, but I'm not stating that you are wrong. I think that we are looking at the same thing but thinking about it in a different light. Did you come up with this on your own or was you taught this. Just courious.

Yes . . . this is my own synthesis . . . the result of decades of study in science, scriptures, myths, philosophy, psychology, and experiences in meditation.

[effie g-tad]

Originally Posted by shawn_2828

Yes, I agree that this is a very unique way of looking or explaining God. I find this a bit odd, but I'm not stating that you are wrong. I think that we are looking at the same thing but thinking about it in a different light. Did you come up with this on your own or was you taught this. Just courious.

"I find this a bit odd, ..."

will such be the opening words on judgment day?

just curious?

[dcashley]

How can anyone justify using scripture to prove the accuracy of scripture? Isn't this extremely circular logic???