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As Christians who emulate Christ we want the prostitutes, tax collectors, drunkards, and anyone who is caught in sin to come to a knowledge of the truth. Sometimes the way we go about it, may not seem that way but we come for the sinners and not the righteous.
What 'truth'?
Whose 'truth'?
My truth is much different than yours. It's not the 'wrong truth' -- truth cannot objectively be 'right' or 'wrong' -- but it's clearly not 'your truth', which is, in fact, what I believe this is all about.
Personally, I have no problem with Christianity. I have no problem with Christians. What I have a problem with is the assumption that someone else feels that they can dictate how I am to live my life.
What I object to is not 'the truth' -- I'm not afraid to have my assumptions challenged. What offends me is someone holding up a holy book and effectively telling me that I'm not intelligent enough to form my own opinion.
If you truly care about us as people, you'll let us alone to find 'the truth' in our own way.
I don't hate you 'because you tell the truth'. I hate your presentation of 'the truth' as something that you and your peers believe gives you license to treat other people as your intellectual inferiors. My truth is just as valid as yours.
How are you even aware of Christ outside of the Scripture. There is absolutely nothing recorded about Him outside of Scripture.
Actually, that's not true. There is. Aren't you also discounting the fact that many people have heard about Jesus without ever opening a bible? It's called word of mouth, auditory learning, and oral recounting of history. And that is not taking into account that fact that God speaks to our spirits by His Spirit so that even if one had never heard the name of Jesus, God can still commune with any man by his spirit. A person's spirit is the lamp of the LORD; it searches throughout one's innermost being.Proverbs 20:27 ISV Consider the following:
Heartsong, I agree that God can connect with us in many ways but we learn about Jesus from the recorded inspired words in the scriptures. Anybody can say that God spoke to him or her but if it does not agree with what was revealed in the scriptures, then how can it be trusted? The prophets, the disciples, the apostles left the record. The apostle Paul was specifically selected by the Lord to give revelation to the Gentiles. People who say that they have learned about Jesus from word of mouth today, have received it from people who learned about Him in the scriptures. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 09-14-2014 at 06:19 AM..
Heartsong, I agree that God can connect with us in many ways but we learn about Jesus from the recorded inspired words in the scriptures. Anybody can say that God spoke to him or her but if it does not agree with what was revealed in the scriptures, then how can it be trusted? The prophets, the disciples, the apostles left the record. The apostle Paul was specifically selected by the Lord to give revelation to the Gentiles. People who say that they have learned about Jesus from word of mouth today, have received it from people who learned about Him in the scriptures. God bless.
Shana,
I understand your need to "defend" the bible - it is deeply ingrained in modern-day Christians to do so. However, the early church knew Jesus Christ personally and he sent his disciples to preach the gospel, not to write a bible. The gospel of peace was to be preached to the nations. At some point people organized Christ's message into a whole religion with all sorts of rules teachings and myths, buildings and a book and the true, simple, child-like faith was all but lost as all sorts of branches have grown up or been planted not by Christ. Christianity, as an institution is largely divisive and dysfunctional, particularly for those who are trapped inside its man-made institutions who agree generally on two things: 1) You must accept the bible as the infallible word of God 2) Unbelievers are hated by God and will burn in hell forever. These two teachings are especially the main two things that the Catholic and mainline Protestant churches agree on. From there, most denominations and people agree on precious little.
I understand your need to "defend" the bible - it is
deeply ingrained in modern-day Christians to do so. However, the early church
knew Jesus Christ personally and he sent his disciples to preach the gospel, not
to write a bible. The gospel of peace was to be preached to the nations. At
some point people organized Christ's message into a whole religion with all
sorts of rules teachings and myths, buildings and a book and the true, simple,
child-like faith was all but lost as all sorts of branches have grown up or been
planted not by Christ. Christianity, as an institution is largely divisive and
dysfunctional, particularly for those who are trapped inside its man-made
institutions who agree generally on two things: 1) You must accept the bible as
the infallible word of God 2) Unbelievers are hated by God and will burn in
hell forever. These two teachings are especially the main two things that the
Catholic and mainline Protestant churches agree on. From there, most
denominations and people agree on precious little.
Heartsong, Jesus and the apostles believed the scriptures and referred to them. How could the disciples continue to preach the gospel after they died? The record had to be written for others to learn from, Heartsong. They wrote it down and we have this today. We know about Jesus today from what they wrote down. Yes, there are problems with some translations and there are misrepresentations. And there are many problems with church institutions, the church system, but that is because of man, not because of the inspired words of God. Also God knows all things anyway and has a purpose for all things. There are many people who accept the scriptures as the inspired words of God who do not believe that unbelievers are hated by God and will burn in hell together. The truth is contained in the scriptures and has to be studied out with God's help. I still do not understand why some who do not accept the scriptures, still refer to the scriptures and post some of them when they post on topics. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 09-14-2014 at 08:55 AM..
Heartsong, Jesus and the apostles believed the scriptures and referred to them. How could the disciples continue to preach the gospel after they died? The record had to be written for others to learn from, Heartsong. They wrote it down and we have this today. We know about Jesus today from what they wrote down. Yes, there are problems some translations. and there are many problems with church institutions but that is because of man, not because of the inspired words of God. Also God knows all things anyway and has a purpose for all things. There are many people who accept the scriptures as the inspired words God who do not believe that unbelievers are hated by God and will burn in hell together. The truth is contained in the scriptures and has to be studied out with God's help. God bless.
Shana,
I do not accept all the scriptures as being inspired by God. That does not mean I reject all of the scriptures nor does it mean I don't believe there are truths about God expressed within them. However, the bible idolizing has got to go and I believe God is bringing it to an end. There has been a lot of damage done to mankind using the 66 books as a weapon. There is simply no denying that. So just know that I do not hate the scriptures, nor do I revere the 66 books as infallible. Nor will I ever teach that one is required to do so. God is NOT a book or a set of books and no book could ever contain Him.
So how do you know which ones to accept as inspired and which ones to reject? Accepting the scriptures as the inspired words of God does not mean that someone is idolizing them. There is only one God but He gave us His word through His Word. Jesus came to reveal the Father to us. How do we know about Jesus and what He taught? The record has been given to us in the scriptures.
Quote:
There has been a lot of damage done to mankind using
the 66 books as a weapon.
And who was it that used the 66 books as a weapon? Is this the problem of the books or the problem of the one who used them as a weapon?
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 09-14-2014 at 08:22 AM..
Also, I don't know that most Protestant congregations believe that unbelievers are hated by God (not sure about Catholics) but I believe that most think that God cannot interfere with someone's "free will" so that He bends to their rejection of Him and they therefore suffer the consequences which they believe to be eternal hell, that there is nothing He can do. Misunderstanding due to translation errors or misinformation does not mean that we should reject scriptures. What a wonderful opportunity God gives us to help find out what is really being taught. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 09-14-2014 at 08:44 AM..
So how do you know which ones to accept as inspired and which ones to reject? Accepting the scriptures as the inspired words of God does not mean that someone is idolizing them. There is only one God but He gave us His word through His Word. Jesus came to reveal the Father to us. How do we know about Jesus and what He taught? The record has been given to us in the scriptures.
And who was it that used the 66 books as a weapon? Is this the problem of the books or the problem of the one who used them as a weapon?
God bless.
It is a problem with SOME of the "purported" words of God, indeed. But especially more so when the official dogma is that a set of 66 very imperfect books is in the hands of people who truly have never known God and purport to speak for him - it has been a lethal cocktail down through the centuries - for sure. If you have not witnessed this - well, I am just surprised, frankly. Also surprised that you feel the need to continue arguing with me as I have told you plainly that I do not despise the scriptures, rather the teaching that the canonized bible is infallible and must be revered and "followed", etc... Jesus said "follow me". He never said to follow a book or even the scriptures that he referred to and even warned the scribes that they could carefully study the scriptures and still not come to him. So bible study, while it can be good, and I've done a good share of it and probably would not have been where I am today in my understanding without it, is still something that can be abused and misused -- not only can it be - but has often been. I will not fall into the trap of answering with names your WHO has done this question. I have likely "DONE IT" myself in times past.
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