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Yes, show me a verse in the bible that states specifically "not all are saved"
Show me a verse that specicially states, "God is willing that some perish"
You will not find such verses. Yet people say all the time, "Not all are saved" and God is willing that some perish"
This strawman approach to doctrine from any point of view doesn't hold up.
NO GOD IS NOT WILLING ANYONE PERISH!!!!!!! Just the opposite, He wants everyone to come to Him, but everyone is not going to.
Eternal hell is real, Matt 25:41-46, Jude 1:7, 2 Thess 1:9
Matt 25:41-46,
Mt 25:41 "Then shall He be declaring to *those also outat His left, `|Go~ from Me, you *ocursed~, into the fire *eonian, *made oready~ for the Adversary and his *messengers.
Where does this say eternal hell is real?
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Mt 25:46 And these shall be coming~ away into chastening eonian, yet the just into life eonian."
Where does this say eternal hell is real?
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Jude 1:7
Ju 1:7 As Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them in *like manner to these _committing ultra-prostitution, and coming away after differentother flesh, are lying~ before us, a specimen, experiencing the justice of fire eonian.
Where does this say eternal hell is real?
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2 Thess 1:9
2Th 1:9 whoany shall |incur the justice of eonian extermination from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of His *strength--
I'm not arguing what you believe it means. You want me to provide a verse saying something specific and that is not how it works and you know it.
You say your bible says sheol rather than the word hell and it is speaking of Davids lowly state. I won't really disagree with that because it is making my point about people demanding that the bible say something specific when they do not like someone elses view point.
It does matter however if a translation uses the word HELL and you say that it isn't about a place of Eternal Torment because your bible uses Sheol. It matters because you are now asking me to provide a verse that states that someone is delivered from hell to heaven.
So to make my point about that give me one verse in your bible that contains the word hell that you say means a place of eternal torment.
Like I said before I don't spend much time in worrying how long hell will be because that is not my main focus. My main focus is being with Jesus forever.
We were talking about the Psalm of David, when someone was trying to argue that Psalm, but they didn't understand what the Psalm meant. We were not talking about the entire bible, we were talking about the Psalm of David.
My main focus is looking at scripture and seeing what it says.
There is nothing in there that says that God will send someone to hell and then bring them into heaven. If is not my focus to see how long they will be punished.
Some say that hell is not eternal, then ok, really it doesn't rattle my chains, because it doesn't say anything about those in hell coming to heaven, point blank.
As I read Isaiah 26:10-14
Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD.
11LORD, when thy hand is lifted up, they will not see: but they shall see, and be ashamed for their envy at the people; yea, the fire of thine enemies shall devour them. 12LORD, thou wilt ordain peace for us: for thou also hast wrought all our works in us. 13O LORD our God, other lords beside thee have had dominion over us: but by thee only will we make mention of thy name. 14They are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them, and made all their memory to perish
As you read the earlier verses it is talking about the righteousness, but what does these verses say, not what you or I think.
It says that those will be destroyed and devoured, does it say that then God will bring them into heaven after they are destroyed or devoured?
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You want me to provide a verse saying something specific and that is not how it works and you know it.
Actually it does if you stick to scripture and provide what it says not what you think that it says. The reason you can't provide what I am asking is because it is not in there.
What I am providing is in the scripture, because I am merely giving the scripture, not adding or taking away.
NO GOD IS NOT WILLING ANYONE PERISH!!!!!!! Just the opposite, He wants everyone to come to Him, but everyone is not going to.
Eternal hell is real, Matt 25:41-46, Jude 1:7, 2 Thess 1:9
To say that God longs,desires,or wishes for something and then doesn`t get it diminishes God. It diminishes who he is and puts him on the level of a human being. God doesn not hope or wish for anything. He DOES. He has declared the beginning from the end. EVERYTHING has a purpose...HIS PURPOSE. He declares things that have yet to happen as though they have.
That is a big part of the problem with ET`ers. They cannot wrap their mind around the fact that God DOES what he wants. He is not a man. You are trying to give God human attributes and understand him as someone with human intellect, wants,needs, and desires. He does not operate as you and I do. We are restricted,refrained,limited,fallable,and unwise. He is ALL KNOWING. There is nothing that limits him. We believe our limited,flawed,tainted human view of justice is the same justice that God has. It is not. We shackle God with our limited ability to love.... With our our limited capacity to show mercy. GOD IS NOT A MAN! Stop trying to give him human intellect and reasoning. You cannot understand his ways because of your limited ability as a human being. Hence when God says ALL will be saved, because of our limited capacity to show mercy and our natural human desire for revenge and justice, we place those attributes on God. Because of our natural human desire to want to belong and feel special we say..those that don`t do as I do or behave the way I do are outsiders. God doesn`t love them the way he loves me,etc. But God doesn`t love the way you and I love someone. We are unable to love that way. What we have is an extremely limited attribute or replica of God. We have the capacity to think and reason but it is like comparing a grain of sand on a beach to all of the sand on a million beaches. It`s like a bird locked in a cage. He can fly around the cage and experience a little of what it feels like to fly. But his experience of flight is nothing compared to an eagle who can soar above the heavens and fly anywhere he wants. We have limited knowledge and live and think in a box because that is all we are capable of. Stop trying to limit God and putting your own restricted reasoning on him.
God said ALL of his good pleasure he WILL do. If it pleasures him to open the eyes of every human being and bring them to repentance,guess what? He will DO that! Just trust that he will do all that he desires! Since we as human beings can`t do all that we desire, we believe God won`t do all that he wills or desires.God will do what he wants, when he wants, and how he wants. Unlike fallable man.
Psalms 100:5 NKJV) For the LORD is good; His mercy is everlasting, And His truth endures to all generations
"…it is God [not man] which works in you BOTH TO WILL [God causes us ‘to will’] and TO DO [God causes us ‘to do’] of His good pleasure" to bring about His intentions (Phil. 2:13).
"In Whom [GOD] also we have obtained [‘obtained’ not ‘earned’] an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED [our ‘destiny’ was ‘pre’ arranged by God, not us] according to the PURPOSE OF HIM [not the free will, OF US!] Who WORKS ALL THINGS[EVERYthing] AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL [not OUR OWN WILL]" (Eph. 1:11).
"For who makes you to differ from another? And what have you that you did not RECEIVE [Gk: ‘OBTAIN’]? [from God] now if you did receive it [from God], why do you glory [Gk: ‘boast’], AS IF YOU HAD NOT RECEIVED IT [from God, but rather of your own ‘free’ will]?" (I Cor. 4:7).
It says that those will be destroyed and devoured, does it say that then God will bring them into heaven after they are destroyed or devoured?
Does it have to say that specifically? You know it doesn't have to or you could not have come to many other conclusions.
What if the depiction of destroying and devouring is when one is converted?
If you change from a sin is not something destroyed and devoured?
If we are made in Gods image and God created everything, do you know that you can only destroy the form of something?
For instance, if you burn a log in a fire, you destroy the log, but you do not destroy the energy that log is, you only convert it to another form.
So I believe it is quite possible and glorious to God that the wicked get destroyed and there is no more wicked, that is wonderful, it is also wonderful that is also when there is a conversion to another form.
1 Timothy 2:4 God wills that all mankind be saved and come to the knowledge of truth.
I do not have to make a context to believe that, do you?
Like I said before I don't spend much time in worrying how long hell will be because that is not my main focus. My main focus is being with Jesus forever
Well there is one thing blatantly on this board and that is the over emphasis of ET by those believe it and those who don't.
Does it have to say that specifically? You know it doesn't have to or you could not have come to many other conclusions.
What if the depiction of destroying and devouring is when one is converted?
If you change from a sin is not something destroyed and devoured?
If we are made in Gods image and God created everything, do you know that you can only destroy the form of something?
For instance, if you burn a log in a fire, you destroy the log, but you do not destroy the energy that log is, you only convert it to another form.
So I believe it is quite possible and glorious to God that the wicked get destroyed and there is no more wicked, that is wonderful, it is also wonderful that is also when there is a conversion to another form.
1 Timothy 2:4 God wills that all mankind be saved and come to the knowledge of truth.
I do not have to make a context to believe that, do you?
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Does it have to say that specifically? You know it doesn't have to or you could not have come to many other conclusions.
I am not coming to any conclusion but what I am reading. Does that scripture say anything about those being in hell and then coming to heaven. I am not adding or taking anything away. What does that scripture say? Does it say that those who are being devoured and who perish will be in heaven.
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What if the depiction of destroying and devouring is when one is converted?
There is no depiction, I am only asking you what the scriptures says and not say? Does it say that those who were destroyed and devoured in that scripture were converted?
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If you change from a sin is not something destroyed and devoured?
Show me scripture that says that.
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If we are made in Gods image and God created everything, do you know that you can only destroy the form of something?
What does that have to do with my question? I am asking a simple queston, where does it say that God will send someone to hell for punishment and then bring them into heaven?
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So I believe it is quite possible and glorious to God that the wicked get destroyed and there is no more wicked, that is wonderful, it is also wonderful that is also when there is a conversion to another form.
If the scripture says that the wicked is being destroyed, then isn't that what it means? How do people get from that something else? If the scripture does not say that the wicked are converted, but instead have perished or destroyed, then what does that say.
How does someone get being brought from hell.
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1 Timothy 2:4 God wills that all mankind be saved and come to the knowledge of truth.
Yes, I do believe that it is God's will that all be saved, but does this verse say that all would be saved. Do you think that it was God's will for Saul, or Judus to do what they did. That was there will, not God's.
Yes, I do believe that it is God's will that all be saved, but does this verse say that all would be saved. Do you think that it was God's will for Saul, or Judus to do what they did. That was there will, not God's.
I believe the verse as it is written, why do I need your commentary?
What Gods will is that he does is not the same as what we do so the comparison is moot.
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