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Within the context of the bible and the times they were living in, it was imperative that they had some way of knowing the truth in contrast to what they had been taught before. Jesus was the way, the truth, and the life.
Do we in the 2000 years after need a way of knowing the truth... I'd say no.
Hebrews 8:11-12, (NIV) 11No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."
See also Jer. 31:31-34
God is the way, the truth, and the life. You are reading a book that tells of something 2000 years ago... Why must it be about you?
What was essential is that Jesus be offered up! If not, then we all would be in a big heap of trouble.
The way, the path is through Jesus' being offered up.
The stage had to be set over time, beginning with Abraham and ending with Jesus.
Animal sacrifice was instituted as future picture of the real sacrifice to be offered up by non other than the selected folk, the Jewish High priests.
They were in compliance with the law, thus rendered innocent of all wrong doing, as Jesus said, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do".
Salvation has come to all mankind via the offering, but not all living may get the opportunity to know Him as you and I do.
But because of where one was born, to whom we were born to, what race, what religion, what time in human history, Gods love covers them all.
What we need to learn.....is how to love one another despite of differing beliefs.
The fact of the matter is the orthodox/fundamentalist teachings on the nature of Good and evil is basically dualism.
No it isn't. Their is no power given to evil, or it's subjects, outside of what God has allowed.
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As if evil were some seperate power from Good.
It is not seperate/equal from good, it is the absence of good. Big difference.
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As if Evil existed outside of God and was its own eternal power.
Evil exists where God is not. Darkness instead of Light.
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They teach that it will exist forever in the form of eternal torture of the majority of the creation.
God teaches us that Light will overcome ALL darkness. In the end, there will be no night/darkness.
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They teach that God cannot defeat it because his hands are tied by his love for human free will.
Human free will operates OUTSIDE of the Light of God. Even if we somehow "feel" in our heart we are doing God's will, chances are we are not, unless the Spirit is doing the leading through us, and our will is removed.
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Even though the scriptures plainly teach that it is gods will that all be saved, they claim that Gods will cannot and will not be accomplished because human free will has jurisdiction concerning the universe and how everything eventually turns out.
It is God's will that ALL be saved. Could God save everyone is not even the question. The question is justice. The question is holiness. The question is this: Can darkness operate with co-existance and in the presence with the Light of God? NO it cannot.
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And how do they teach things will eventually turn out because of the power of evil to persuade far more of Gods creation than even God can persuade?
God can and has done things for His Will, even to the point of influencing the thoughts and bodies of those He needed to perform this Will. Hense Paul for the good, and Pharoah for the hardening of the heart. But having said this, who are we to question God and His Ways?
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It will turn out the vast majority of Gods creation being tortured in an everlasting garbage heap.
It will? I do not believe this.
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Who suffers?
Now? Those who do not have the Light. That is why the world is in the shape it is right now.
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Most of Gods creation, and God.
God suffers? I think not.
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God has to watch all his hard work go up in smoke for ever.
Would not be the first time. Look at the world during the time of Noah. God can and WILL wipe the slate clean again, and save those who are found righteous in His site. This is why Jesus was sent. Salvation resides ONLY through Him and His sacrifice for us.
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What a shame.
Again, why question the Creator?
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That is a stain that never comes out.
I am sure there were those AFTER Noah's time who felt the same way concerning those who perished in the flood.
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Who wins?
Who says it is a contest? When people say it is a contest, then you have sides. There is no sides. It is completely one sided, and it is God's.
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The devil, because his works have an everlasting monument that stands forever demonstrating his ultimate victory over most of Gods creation.
You give the devil too much due. He is only allowed to do what he is commissioned for. He operates in the darkness, for that is his domain. Why is he allowed to operate at all? Because God CANNOT operate in darkness.
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And his fallen angels who get to torture the lost souls who are damned with them ever more.
Fairy tales. Who believes this?
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Talk about a doctrine of devils.
Not even a doctrine of devils, but rather people who have decided to do God's will and thinking FOR Him, instead of letting God work through them. This is how these tales are made up, ususally to give power over others where there should be no power. Either over their religion, or their governmments.
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And these people dont even realize that this in fact is what they believe ...
It is no different in my opinion to what the UR camp believes. Instead of the hard line justice of God sending people to hell, even for eternity, they discount the justice of God by proclaiming that EVERYONE who has ever lived is given the pardon of THEIR unrighteousness before God's Holiness.
Even the most common of senses cannot understand this, so they use the proclamation of Love as a means to discount justice.
Think about it logically. Love is used against Justice. Isn't this what religious zealots believe? I have heard some horrendous stories of people doing things to other people out of what they believed love was. Saying God does the opposite, IMO, is the same thing. When you remove Justice out of the equation, even by claiming Jesus' blood was sufficient for the most unrepentant damned human beings, then you are also saying that God's justice is appeased completely. It give license to all sorts of evil and sin in the world.
Those who have or are being regenerated by the POWER of the Holy Spirit know that we must become, BY God, a new creation. This old man must die, forever. It cannot ever reside in the presence of God, for it is a fallen creature.
Though most of the UR camp have pure loving hearts, and I personallly have no ill feelings towards them, I also understand by reading God's Word that Justice will be served in the end to those unbelievers and blasphemers. What the outcome is, is up to God. He is the final Authority, and no matter how much the most loving people desire the every single soul will be saved? It just does not read this way, outside of a couple of verses. There is far more telling us about God's Justice and how He feels about unrighteousness, and unfaithfulness, than having a desire (and who wouldn't?) that all will be saved.
Most people I know that have this love in their heart to preach this doctrine, somehow, someway, have blinded themselves to the rest of scripture. Until their eyes are opened? Who knows. They just cannot see this justice. If they can, they believe justice was served 2000 years ago on the cross, which really, it was, but we MUST repent, bow to our King, and serve Him also. This isn't a works based salvation, but rather a Government serving sanctification. It is our commission. To preach the Kingdom, the King, His Father, and His Laws. To do anything else is well, redundant.
they discount the justice of God by proclaiming that EVERYONE who has ever lived is given the pardon of THEIR unrighteousness before God's Holiness
...
they believe justice was served 2000 years ago on the cross, which really, it was, but we MUST repent, bow to our King, and serve Him also
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way
and the evil man his thoughts.
Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.
This tells us if someone repents and turns to the Lord, the Lord will pardon him.
Psalm 22:27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You
And all will turn to the Lord.
Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
And all will confess Him as Lord, and even swear allegiance to Him (an oath of loyalty!).
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way
and the evil man his thoughts.
Let him turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on him,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.
This tells us if someone repents and turns to the Lord, the Lord will pardon him.
Psalm 22:27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You
And all will turn to the Lord.
Isaiah 45:23 I have sworn by Myself,
The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness
And will not turn back,
That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.
And all will confess Him as Lord, and even swear allegiance to Him (an oath of loyalty!).
Have you ever thought this may be "ALL",,,,,left standing, after judgment has taken place? And I do not see where repentance takes place, after the death of the human body. Can you show me these verses please.
Have you ever thought this may be "ALL",,,,,left standing, after judgment has taken place? And I do not see where repentance takes place, after the death of the human body. Can you show me these verses please.
"The wages of sin is death", once dead, there is no longer any sin.
But at the feet of Jesus, recognition is immediate!
"The wages of sin is death", once dead, there is no longer any sin.
But at the feet of Jesus, recognition is immediate!
Blessings, AJ
Recognition is immediate for those who are His as He knows His sheep. Other's who loved darkness stand condemned in their sin apart from God's Holiness.
John 5:24
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
So, by looking at this verse standing on it's own? We can see that condemnation is NOT passing into life. How can those who have died, condemned and unrepentant, without being made a "new creation" become a new creation made holy, made as Bride to the Son?
John 3:19-21
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Have you ever thought this may be "ALL",,,,,left standing, after judgment has taken place? And I do not see where repentance takes place, after the death of the human body. Can you show me these verses please.
Would you not say when someone turns to the Lord, calls on their name, and swears allegiance to them, that they have repented? Especially considering Isa 55:7?
I don't see this "ALL" as only those left standing. Other verses tell us, God will be all in all, God will reconcile all (& the world), God plans to bring all things under one head - Christ.
I believe this repentance of the non-believers will happen during the Kingdom reign. They will become believers and desire to repent by the time they bow and confess to the Lord. The fact that they swear allegiance confirms this for me.
I was doing a bible study today and came across these verses.
While I don't believe hell is a literal place . . . . I've been thinking on these verses.
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
—Daniel 12:2
2 Thessalonians 1:9
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,—2 Thessalonians 1:9
THIS is my belief, that Hell, is bowing down to Jesus, but not being invited in to the place he is preparing for us . . . and dying, permanently . . . forever and ever gone, just dead.
Revelation 20:9-15
And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.—Revelation 20:9-15
I was doing a bible study today and came across these verses.
While I don't believe hell is a literal place . . . . I've been thinking on these verses.
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
—Daniel 12:2
2 Thessalonians 1:9
They will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might,—2 Thessalonians 1:9
THIS is my belief, that Hell, is bowing down to Jesus, but not being invited in to the place he is preparing for us . . . and dying, permanently . . . forever and ever gone, just dead.
Revelation 20:9-15
And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.—Revelation 20:9-15
everlasting/eternal is a mistranslation. Eonian/age-abiding/pertaining to the ages is a better translation. This has been covered in other threads, and you can find many scriptural articles on the web about this.
Why is it too late to be saved when one bows and confesses and swears allegiance to God after the resurrection? God's promises do not expire.
All will be made alive (not annihilated), each in their own order.
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