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Old 10-26-2009, 01:45 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,582,913 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Whoa . . . you just twisted it yet again. I absolutely know God ALLOWED His Son to suffer because of us and our barbarity. He knew it would happen and neither He nor Jesus did anything to stop it. That is NOT THE SAME AS REQUIRING IT OR ENJOYING IT!!!! The BOLD AND CAPS is what is SICK and TWISTED . . . and MY GOD could never embrace such evil!!!
"Pleased" in that passage simply means it was His will (AKA Good pleasure of His will). Doesn't mean enjoying, just that it was a necessary event.
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Old 10-26-2009, 01:49 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,418,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
"Pleased" in that passage simply means it was His will (AKA Good pleasure of His will). Doesn't mean enjoying, just that it was a necessary event.
Necessary for what? God gave grace and salvation to those in the OT yet he NEEDS Christ to die for his pleasure? LOL

Christ died to show that man-made doctrine of God is incorrect and that he is LOVE. Christ died to show that the Love of God itself was rejected in favor of man-made doctrine. The god of the OT was a fallacy based on the religion of other gods... yet we see that through it all God is faithful to provide grace to alleviate our guilty consciences..
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Old 10-26-2009, 01:52 AM
 
37,662 posts, read 25,376,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
"Pleased" in that passage simply means it was His will (AKA Good pleasure of His will). Doesn't mean enjoying, just that it was a necessary event.
Sorry . . it was NOT required or necessary (only that Jesus eventually die to release His Holy Spirit through rebirth as Spirit . . . as ALL humans must eventually do). It was just INEVITABLE given the sinfulness and barbarity of humankind and their religious leaders at the time. That is why Jesus died so horribly . . . BECAUSE of our sinfulness . . . NOT to PAY God for it in some heinous ritualistic "sacrificial" punishment.

Last edited by MysticPhD; 10-26-2009 at 02:13 AM..
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Old 10-26-2009, 01:58 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,582,913 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Sorry . . it was NOT required or necessary (only that Jesus eventually die to release His Holy Spirit through rebirth as Spirit . . . as ALL humans must eventually do). It was just INEVITABLE given the sinfulness and barbarity of humankind and their religious leaders at the time. That is why Jesus died . . . BECAUSE of our sinfulness . . . NOT to PAY God for it in some heinous ritualistic "sacrificial" punishment.
Of course, as usual, you and I agree on this. Consider what I am saying when I say "necessary".
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Old 10-26-2009, 02:05 AM
 
Location: Texas
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Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Christ died to show that man-made doctrine of God is incorrect and that he is LOVE. Christ died to show that the Love of God itself was rejected in favor of man-made doctrine.
And it wasn't God's will and wasn't necessary to show this?

See what I'm saying?
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Old 10-26-2009, 02:15 AM
 
37,662 posts, read 25,376,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
Of course, as usual, you and I agree on this. Consider what I am saying when I say "necessary".
Sorry firstborn . . . I should have given you more credit than I did. Mea culpa.
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Old 10-26-2009, 02:20 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,418,381 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
And it wasn't God's will and wasn't necessary to show this?

See what I'm saying?
Exactly.. it wasn't necessary and it wasn't God's will that Jesus die.. it was inevitable given the corruption of his character by those who Jesus was trying teach and as shown by the OT...

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Old 10-26-2009, 02:28 AM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 5,582,913 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Sorry firstborn . . . I should have given you more credit than I did. Mea culpa.
I understand why though - this stuff is so pervasive it's hard not to react to certain words *sigh*
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Old 10-26-2009, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,133,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
The question is a long one that is asked of Jesus, and it includes parts that are clearly talking about vastly different events...
When taken in context...it is clear that Jesus is speaking of the same event...calling those two different questions is the only way "futurists/literalists" can justify why they don't believe Him. It's the same old story...and I was hoping for something new or at the very least, that some would question what they been told and taught by others...I was sadly mistaken.
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Old 10-26-2009, 11:33 AM
 
10,233 posts, read 10,609,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
"Pleased" in that passage simply means it was His will (AKA Good pleasure of His will). Doesn't mean enjoying, just that it was a necessary event.
Yes, obviously Mystic and I were on the wrong wavelength. I didn't mean to imply that our Father got some sort of sadistic pleasure out of seeing His Son suffer---I meant that in His agony over seeing His Son treated this way He was pleased at what Jesus was accomplishing for our benefit.
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