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This is not a threat or even a threat of eternal torment . You have got to be out of your mind to think God goes around threatening folk.
Romans 11:22 tells us that "God's judgements are unsearchable and His ways past finding out" . Most of the church would have us believe that God's unsearchable ways are to "accept Christ or burn in hell forever" . We reject this view of God's judgement as nothing more than the carnal thinking of men who are unable to see that God's judgements flow FROM His love, not seperate from it . The carnal man wants to see others "get what they deserve" and so he takes those prejudices and reads them into the word of God . However the testimony of God's love is such that the bible tells us that "love never fails"(1 Cor 13:8). God's end is always love, not judgement www.savior-of-all.com/cross.html
Are you so dull of understanding that you are unable to comprehend what is said? I said that if what Jesus said wasn't true then that would have been an empty threat. He doesn't make empty threats. He gave warning about the consequences of unbelief which is eternity in the lake of fire. And still you don't get it.
Agreed. But what is the true character of God? How does He treat sin in the OT? How does He treat the enemies of Israel?
Hoe did He treat the sinner in the NT ?
6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Still powerless to do what ? What does this tell you about not only us but those under the Old covenant .
How does Jesus tell us to treat our enemies ?
I am convinced you and Mike555 believe that God hates sinners .
It is only goofy if you have some absurd idea that it must be mindlessly read and accepted without thought or reason or any other knowledge available to us . . . in an all or nothing paradigm. Here is 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (New International Version - UK)
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
It escapes me . . . how anyone could turn these sensible suggestion about using the scriptures as a USEFUL God-inspired (NOT dictated) and inspirational reference to encourage us and give us hope . . . into an infallible literal dogma to be memorized and recited by rote as the inerrant unquestioned truth. And to repeat and compound the absurdity of this view . . . to be mindlessly read and accepted without thought or reason or using any other knowledge available to us . . . in an all or nothing paradigm of blind obedience. It is a purely satanic deception and distortion from the earliest stages of the faith . . . when we were even more ignorant and naive than so many of us seem to want to remain today.
I believe it is impossible to sincerely seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit within to interpret what God has "written in our hearts" . . . and continue to make excuses for and rationalize this ridiculous paradigm and dogma. It requires a powerful and evil Spirit to override our inner sense of decency and rightness so completely with such lame excuses as "God works in mysterious ways" or any similar blather. God is living and with us as the Holy Spirit within. Stop ignoring Him and blindly following the rote teachings corrupted by satanic influences separating us from God 's love and true nature . . . with lame excuses for believing in absolutely evil motivations of God.
You cannot be a Christian and believe the red portion above. Jesus Himself quoted Scripture (yes, the OT) to refute the suggestions of Satan in the wilderness. Do you know how much of the New Testament is directly taken from the Old Testament?
For you to imply we shouldn't quote it nor take it as the inerrant truth that it is shows me that the mind of Christ is not in you - despite your claims.
And again - what I marked in blue above - to me that says that you believe the Bible taken by rote is ridiculous dogma that is influenced by Satan.
You have on other threads considered the cross as primitive and unnecessary.
Based on the "letter" (2 Cor. 3:2) written on your heart - I don't think you are a Christian.
I understand my opinion on that means nothing in the whole eternal scheme of things - but it will affect how I answer your posts in the future.
6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
Still powerless to do what ? What does this tell you about not only us but those under the Old covenant .
How does Jesus tell us to treat our enemies ?
I am convinced you and Mike555 believe that God hates sinners .
I totally understand and embrace by rote Romans 5:8. If we didn't believe it, we wouldn't preach it. John 3:16?? Hello?? God so loved the world... that's another verse I take by rote. God 's love is so obvious to those who have been saved.
I have never said that it is on the basis of God's hate that people end up in apart from God in torment. Now people do hate God (John 15:18-25).
You cannot be a Christian and believe the red portion above. Jesus Himself quoted Scripture (yes, the OT) to refute the suggestions of Satan in the wilderness. Do you know how much of the New Testament is directly taken from the Old Testament?
For you to imply we shouldn't quote it nor take it as the inerrant truth that it is shows me that the mind of Christ is not in you - despite your claims.
And again - what I marked in blue above - to me that says that you believe the Bible taken by rote is ridiculous dogma that is influenced by Satan.
You have on other threads considered the cross as primitive and unnecessary.
Based on the "letter" (2 Cor. 3:2) written on your heart - I don't think you are a Christian.
I understand my opinion on that means nothing in the whole eternal scheme of things - but it will affect how I answer your posts in the future.
The blind literal reading and rote acceptance of the "letter" of scripture instead of correctly discerning the "spirit" embedded within is mindless ignorance deserving nothing but scorn. Anyone who asserts that writings from 2000-4000+ years ago are NOT primitive has no conception of our primitive ancestry. Jesus is the LIVING Word of God . . . not words "written in ink" and USEFUL for our instruction. You must believe He is dead and not available to us to so blindly rely on the written word. Do you believe Jesus is with us or not?THAT, my brother, is where the "rubber hits the road" with our faith in Christ. I am ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN He is with us. I encounter His unconditional love and acceptance in deep meditation . . . so for me it is not a matter of faith in written words . . . it is faith in the living Jesus . . THE Word of God.
Last edited by MysticPhD; 03-08-2010 at 04:51 PM..
Jesus said not to fear that which can kill the body but not the soul but rather to fear that which can destroy both the soul and the body in Gehenna. There are NO PRONOUNS in that passage . . . You have implicated God falsely.You have it backwards . . . anyone who has not the Holy Spirit within . . . does not have the "mind of Christ" to correctly discern (spiritually) what has been "written in ink" (the letter) using what has been "written in our hearts" by the Spirit of God.
The Holy Spirit is not the mind of Christ. The mind of Christ is the Bible. And when the doctrines and principles of the word of God are transferred from the Bible into the soul of the believer and which involves the Holy Spirit making those doctrines understandable, then the mind of Christ is formed in the soul of the believer. Without any knowledge of Bible doctrine in the soul of the believer, the Holy Spirit has nothing to work with in guiding the believer.
I already showed you that God is the subject of Matthew 10:28. And further, the translators of all the various translations were not so ignorant that they could not correctly translate the passage. Go ahead and take a look at the various translations including Youngs Literal which some of you universalists seem to think is so good. The arrogance of thinking that you know better than men who are trained in the original lanquages. I didn't say they don't make mistakes. But there is no mistake here.
Matthew 10:28 'And do not fear those who can kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
All that needs to be addressed here are the words 'Him who is able.'
In the Greek it is TON DUNAMENON.
TON-THE; modifies the noun DUNAMENON-DUNAMAI
DUNAMENON-ONE BEING ABLE.
TON DUNAMENON--one being able-Him who is able.
It is God who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Are you so dull of understanding that you are unable to comprehend what is said? I said that if what Jesus said wasn't true then that would have been an empty threat. He doesn't make empty threats. He gave warning about the consequences of unbelief which is eternity in the lake of fire. And still you don't get it.
Tell me... was there an imminent threat to the lives of those alive then? Because Jesus was talking to THEM then not YOU now.... so he didn't make threats. He simply told them that there was something on the horizon that if they didn't listen to him would cause them great pain and/or death... that event was the destruction of Jerusalem and is PAST.
What exactly do you think Jesus is warning YOU personally of?
The mind of Christ is not the bible , it's ridiculous to believe it to be so whether you believe it to be the OT scripture or the NT scripture.
12We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us
It's Christ in you the hope of glory, not the bible in you the hope of glory
To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
The gospel you believe is light years from the glorious mystery that God has chosen to make known among the gentiles.It's a gospel of sin , death and condemnation.
The Holy Spirit is not the mind of Christ. The mind of Christ is the Bible. And when the doctrines and principles of the word of God are transferred from the Bible into the soul of the believer and which involves the Holy Spirit making those doctrines understandable, then the mind of Christ is formed in the soul of the believer. Without any knowledge of Bible doctrine in the soul of the believer, the Holy Spirit has nothing to work with in guiding the believer.
I already showed you that God is the subject of Matthew 10:28. And further, the translators of all the various translations were not so ignorant that they could not correctly translate the passage. Go ahead and take a look at the various translations including Youngs Literal which some of you universalists seem to think is so good. The arrogance of thinking that you know better than men who are trained in the original lanquages. I didn't say they don't make mistakes. But there is no mistake here.
Matthew 10:28 'And do not fear those who can kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
All that needs to be addressed here are the words 'Him who is able.'
In the Greek it is TON DUNAMENON.
TON-THE; modifies the noun DUNAMENON-DUNAMAI
DUNAMENON-ONE BEING ABLE.
TON DUNAMENON--one being able-Him who is able.
It is God who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
You have it the nail on the head of we're we disagree
The Holy Spirit is not the mind of Christ. The mind of Christ is the Bible. And when the doctrines and principles of the word of God are transferred from the Bible into the soul of the believer and which involves the Holy Spirit making those doctrines understandable, then the mind of Christ is formed in the soul of the believer. Without any knowledge of Bible doctrine in the soul of the believer, the Holy Spirit has nothing to work with in guiding the believer.
I already showed you that God is the subject of Matthew 10:28. And further, the translators of all the various translations were not so ignorant that they could not correctly translate the passage. Go ahead and take a look at the various translations including Youngs Literal which some of you universalists seem to think is so good. The arrogance of thinking that you know better than men who are trained in the original lanquages. I didn't say they don't make mistakes. But there is no mistake here.
Matthew 10:28 'And do not fear those who can kill the body, but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
All that needs to be addressed here are the words 'Him who is able.'
In the Greek it is TON DUNAMENON.
TON-THE; modifies the noun DUNAMENON-DUNAMAI
DUNAMENON-ONE BEING ABLE.
TON DUNAMENON--one being able-Him who is able.
It is God who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
According to the greek this "hell" you talk of is the valley of hinnom... the very valley where all the people killed in the 70AD destruction were piled up and burned...
Also did you know that "soul" here is synonymous with LIFE? So fear him who is able to destroy LIFE and BODY in the Valley of Hinnom... an actual place that existed as a place to burn criminals and garbage.. it is a nice garden like place now... Do you think it still applies to 21st century people?
CONTEXT means keeping in mind that Jesus was actually speaking to living people at the time... it is not that he dictated this to people so that MIKE555 would read it..
How is it that you don't see that?
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