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Jesus did NOT instruct us to become members of a particular denomination or 501(c)(3) corporation and MOST CERTAINLY NOT to warm church pews. He said to follow Him and become fisher's of men. One of the greatest signs that Jesus spoke about concerning the last days is APOSTASY. And you'd better believe that it has trickled down to small churches as well. WE MUST recognize apostasy for what is TRULY is.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires." 2Tim. 4:3
"Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honor me with their lips, but their heart is far way from me. But in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.' Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men." Mk. 7:6-8
Why are so many mainstream, church attending, self professing christians afraid to admit that it is completely possible for their church to be one of the very churches the Bible warns us that will exist in the end times? I suppose that to admit such a thing would then put a burden on the individual believer to begin doing what we are called to do instead of sitting on their behinds.
The somber warnings throughout the Bible concerning the apostate condition of the fallen church are NUMEROUS. Only a deceived person or outright liar would deny the Scriptures that warn us of such. Apostasy is the falling away from the faith. 1 Tim. 4:1 tells us: “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall DEPART FROM THE FAITH, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils ..."
This is describing Christians departing from the faith...falling away from the faith. Way too many Christians attempt to say that this is meaning nonbelievers BUT how is it possible to depart from somewhere one has never been before? Obviously, then, the entity the Bible is speaking about in 2 Thess. 2:3 and 1 Tim. 4:1 can only be the false church. What about the dire warning of Paul to his disciples?
"For it is IMPOSSIBLE for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
"And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
"If they shall FALL AWAY, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." (Heb 6:4-6)
These are very HARD sayings but there they are in black and white. One would be well advised not to be too cavalier or too quick to "explain" them away AS NOT MEANING WHAT THEY SO PLAINLY MEAN.
Interestingly enough, Christians in other nations pray that persecution comes to American Christians so as to wake us up from our comfy slumber, allowing us to become humble and in obedience to The Lord. We are ill-prepared for what will eventually be a great persecution.
"Take heed to yourselves: For they [the leaders of the Apostate Church] shall deliver you up to councils [church councils much like the church councils the Catholic Church instituted against so-called "heretics" during the Inquisition]; and in the synagogues [their churches] ye shall be beaten ..." (Mark 13:9)
Jesus did NOT instruct us to become members of a particular denomination or 501(c)(3) corporation and MOST CERTAINLY NOT to warm church pews. He said to follow Him and become fisher's of men. One of the greatest signs that Jesus spoke about concerning the last days is APOSTASY. And you'd better believe that it has trickled down to small churches as well. WE MUST recognize apostasy for what is TRULY is.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires." 2Tim. 4:3
"Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honor me with their lips, but their heart is far way from me. But in vain do they worship me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.' Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men." Mk. 7:6-8
Why are so many mainstream, church attending, self professing christians afraid to admit that it is completely possible for their church to be one of the very churches the Bible warns us that will exist in the end times? I suppose that to admit such a thing would then put a burden on the individual believer to begin doing what we are called to do instead of sitting on their behinds.
The somber warnings throughout the Bible concerning the apostate condition of the fallen church are NUMEROUS. Only a deceived person or outright liar would deny the Scriptures that warn us of such. Apostasy is the falling away from the faith. 1 Tim. 4:1 tells us: “Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall DEPART FROM THE FAITH, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils ..."
This is describing Christians departing from the faith...falling away from the faith. Way too many Christians attempt to say that this is meaning nonbelievers BUT how is it possible to depart from somewhere one has never been before? Obviously, then, the entity the Bible is speaking about in 2 Thess. 2:3 and 1 Tim. 4:1 can only be the false church. What about the dire warning of Paul to his disciples?
"For it is IMPOSSIBLE for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
"And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
"If they shall FALL AWAY, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." (Heb 6:4-6)
These are very HARD sayings but there they are in black and white. One would be well advised not to be too cavalier or too quick to "explain" them away AS NOT MEANING WHAT THEY SO PLAINLY MEAN.
Interestingly enough, Christians in other nations pray that persecution comes to American Christians so as to wake us up from our comfy slumber, allowing us to become humble and in obedience to The Lord. We are ill-prepared for what will eventually be a great persecution.
"Take heed to yourselves: For they [the leaders of the Apostate Church] shall deliver you up to councils [church councils much like the church councils the Catholic Church instituted against so-called "heretics" during the Inquisition]; and in the synagogues [their churches] ye shall be beaten ..." (Mark 13:9)
Christ can not lose what is truly His or else He could not be God and not be Christ. Your assertions are excuses to hide more than they are justifications for what you believe. With all due respect come out and help the few Christians who remain. We need help facing down all this apostasy you speak of, but of course its much easier to hide and leave us to fight alone. Wake up you are taking the weaker way out.
You have no authority to call out Christians from a church. No where does Christ command anyone to come out of a church, but more correctly remove that which is not Christian and to strengthen that which remains.
With all due respect I believe you are still missing the point. The real church is made of living stones, so leaving the church is impossible.
Nowhere in the bible does it say a 'pastor' will run these multi-purpose civic centers and we are obligated to help pay for all their projects. As I said from the beginning - there's nothing WRONG with supporting that, just let's all be honest and admit what it actually is.
WE all have different experiences with incorporated Christian organizations. There is a large sector of independent organizations where once a family gets in the are told that God will curse them according to Malachi if they don't give 10% to that organization.
Of course, some of these organizations bring in BIG bucks and most of it goes to hiring professionals to take care of business and to build buildings etc. as well as some great outside causes. Since it's a free country, fine, go for it but don't scam the people by claiming the organization is run by God who is demanding a legal part of your income so you can be blessed back. Just be straight: "Let's all come together and do this because we believe it will be beneficial for everyone (including the kingdom of God)".
That way everyone can decide without being duped into thinking that the organization is a 'church' because by the scriptural definition, it's not.
With all due respect I believe you are still missing the point. The real church is made of living stones, so leaving the church is impossible.
Nowhere in the bible does it say a 'pastor' will run these multi-purpose civic centers and we are obligated to help pay for all their projects. As I said from the beginning - there's nothing WRONG with supporting that, just let's all be honest and admit what it actually is.
WE all have different experiences with incorporated Christian organizations. There is a large sector of independent organizations where once a family gets in the are told that God will curse them according to Malachi if they don't give 10% to that organization.
Of course, some of these organizations bring in BIG bucks and most of it goes to hiring professionals to take care of business and to build buildings etc. as well as some great outside causes. Since it's a free country, fine, go for it but don't scam the people by claiming the organization is run by God who is demanding a legal part of your income so you can be blessed back. Just be straight: "Let's all come together and do this because we believe it will be beneficial for everyone (including the kingdom of God)".
That way everyone can decide without being duped into thinking that the organization is a 'church' because by the scriptural definition, it's not.
No sir I do not miss your point at all.
The point is the Lord still resides in many churches on this planet. Moderator cut: personal attack
If a Christian is told they will be cursed for not giving 10 percent by anyone then that which is speaking is not Christian. Quite honestly I have heard this excuse before and I have not seen it myself. But I myself can admit I am not omnipresent. Your better solution would be to call out the error,Moderator cut: off topic
The Bible blesses the gift and the giver.[Moderator cut: off topic
I truly stress the word Christian, because there are public Christian churches out there. Mine is one of them. We have 3 dollars in our bank. We cant even pave our driveway because we needed 2500 dollars to finish our building so we could occupy it. My wife donated 1000 to help the church so our members could come together. I fill the potholes every week free of charge so people dont have to ride a bumpy driveway when they come. This is the work truly that needs to be done. I havent held a job in over a year thanks to the waste, fraud, and abuse of the US government. And I have not taken one cent from anyone in the church. You want to make a post about true fellowship teach people things like this. Face my pastor with your post. The man who took a pay cut and lives in a litte beat up house because all of us in our little side of the world suffer. We all come together and do this because we dont believe it will make it beneficial for everyone, WE KNOW it will.
But then again it is so much easier to call people out and go to the home. That way while you sit inside with your onion dip, the ones truly searching who might believe wont have a public place they can go to and find Gods word. Seriously give thought to what you say. It is not I missing the point sir, it is you.
Last edited by Miss Blue; 03-16-2010 at 03:20 PM..
The point is the Lord still resides in many churches on this planet.
Only in people, the only true temple.
Moderator cut: quote from deleted part post
[quote=Aschultz73;13319705]
Nor do you have any right to proclaim a coming out based on what you believe.Moderator cut: quote was deleted
If a Christian is told they will be cursed for not giving 10 percent by anyone then that which is speaking is not Christian. Quite honestly I have heard this excuse before and I have not seen it myself. But I myself can admit I am not omnipresent. Your better solution would be to call out the error,Moderator cut: off topic as was the quote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aschultz73
The Bible blesses the gift and the giver. The United States Government wastes more money then anyone including public churches so why dont you make a thread saying "stop paying your taxes?" One doesnt have to be omnipresent to know the waste, fraud, and abuse of the government. Yet you choose to focus on the churchs not knowing or being able to judge how many Christian churches yet remain.
Unfortunately the gov. is not giving me a choice at this time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aschultz73
I truly stress the word Christian, because there are public Christian churches out there. Mine is one of them. We have 3 dollars in our bank. We cant even pave our driveway because we needed 2500 dollars to finish our building so we could occupy it. My wife donated 1000 to help the church so our members could come together. I fill the potholes every week free of charge so people dont have to ride a bumpy driveway when they come. This is the work truly that needs to be done. I havent held a job in over a year thanks to the waste, fraud, and abuse of the US government. And I have not taken one cent from anyone in the church. You want to make a post about true fellowship teach people things like this. Face my pastor with your post. The man who took a pay cut and lives in a litte beat up house because all of us in our little side of the world suffer. We all come together and do this because we dont believe it will make it beneficial for everyone, WE KNOW it will.
That's great. I did the pothole thing to. Do it from your heart and it will be a blessing. In my present world view time is better spent fixing an old widow's house or driveway. BTW, what side of the world are you on?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aschultz73
But then again it is so much easier to call people out and go to the home. That way while you sit inside with your onion dip, the ones truly searching who might believe wont have a public place they can go to and find Gods word.
No, what's easy is to go into a building, hear a sermon, put some money in the plate and go home. No real accountability or close intimate friendships.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aschultz73
Seriously give thought to what you say. It is not I missing the point sir, it is you.
What point am I missing again?
Last edited by Miss Blue; 03-16-2010 at 03:38 PM..
Guys, this thread is NOT about ur vs et..
Please do not take this thread off topic..
The op is simply stating that 'home church " is the way that many, many people are leaving the instiutional church in order to worship with no strings attached as in keeping up a building called" the church"
The "Christian" church system we have in the world today is derived from the synagogue system of the post-Babylonian captivity Hebrews ... The Synagogue system derived in turn from the mystery traditions of Babylon. The temples of worship were places where men thought to come close to God, as if it were by the intercession of the priesthood. But Christ is our high priest, and we are the members of his body, and we are the living stones of his temple built without hands, and he has done away with the old priesthood so that those whom he has called and elected unto this office of grace might all be kings and priests to the unbelieving world, that is to say all those that believe and are of the household of faith.
But the stiff-necked, and the hard of heart, who do desire their own profit, to set themselves up above others, or put themselves on the right hand or at the foot of others, who do not serve God but men, they cannot hear this and will not see it. They desire their religious pomp and the lording over the laity. They desire to make their wealth from the fat of the flock and to stand on the stage and behind the pulpit to be worshiped themselves before God, so that other men should bend their ear and knee to them before God, as if it were in the name of God. And these are the same as those that were before rebuked by the prophets and by the apostles and by our lord, wolves guarding the fold. It is written of our lord that whenever he did preach in the synagogue early on in his ministry, it was to the chagrin of them who were therein, even the scribes and the pharisees. And they wondered after his strange doctrine, and after his mighty works, and would have killed him ... Never again did he set foot in them thereafter, but taught in homes and on the hill tops and in the fields.
Acts 17:24-25
God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshiped with men's hands, as though he needed anything, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
Acts 7:48-51
Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? Hath not my hand made all these things? Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
You're on quite a holy roll today IM. Are you fasting or what???
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Do it from your heart and it will be a blessing. In my present world view time is better spent fixing an old widow's house or driveway. BTW, what side of the world are you on?
