What's With The Streetcars? (Columbus, Cincinnati: calculated, taxes, military)

[Traveler87]

Originally Posted by insightofitall

Hopefully my sarcasm wasn't too veiled. I don't want to give the impression I'm "anti-city development". I have my own personal ideas about how I'd like to see Cincinnati progress and grow, but people think I'm stupid so I never express those ideas. I've always gotten shot down whenever I did. So I don't.

Anyway, I'm babbling. It's hard to think of what constitutes the "suburbs" because clearly there are some places outside the city limits which are deemed "suburban" - such as Delhi - while still having other parts of the city proper extend beyond those suburbs. For instance, Delhi sits in a pocket surrounded by Price Hill to the east, Westwood/Covedale to the north, and Riverside/Sayler Park to the south/southwest. So to me, personally, whenever I reference the suburbs, I'm talking about places that lie out further...such as Anderson, Loveland, Montgomery, Mason, West Chester, Forest Park, Colerain, Harrison, Lawrenceburg, Florence, Alexandria, etc. Those places which are generally more than 10 miles from downtown.

I don't get that impression from you at all. I am right there with you on people choosing the suburbs or the city, I want progress in both. I am tired of the constant bashing of Cincinnati from certain posters. Just like I am sure certain posters are tired of the constant bashing of the suburbs. I just find the posters picking on the city to go way over the top and act like it is hell on Earth, and this is before anyone else has even posted in the thread.

[Sarah Perry]

Originally Posted by insightofitall

Hopefully my sarcasm wasn't too veiled. I don't want to give the impression I'm "anti-city development". I have my own personal ideas about how I'd like to see Cincinnati progress and grow, but people think I'm stupid so I never express those ideas. I've always gotten shot down whenever I did. So I don't.

Anyway, I'm babbling. It's hard to think of what constitutes the "suburbs" because clearly there are some places outside the city limits which are deemed "suburban" - such as Delhi - while still having other parts of the city proper extend beyond those suburbs. For instance, Delhi sits in a pocket surrounded by Price Hill to the east, Westwood/Covedale to the north, and Riverside/Sayler Park to the south/southwest. So to me, personally, whenever I reference the suburbs, I'm talking about places that lie out further...such as Anderson, Loveland, Montgomery, Mason, West Chester, Forest Park, Colerain, Harrison, Lawrenceburg, Florence, Alexandria, etc. Those places which are generally more than 10 miles from downtown.

Well, I'm interested in your ideas, particularly since you don't seem stupid to me. Please share.

[Traveler87]

Originally Posted by Sarah Perry

Well, I'm interested in your ideas, particularly since you don't seem stupid to me. Please share.

I thought this post right here sums up what I said in an earlier post about you. Thanks, Sarah. You proved my point well...

Oh come on, like you have any room to even talk? Pot, meet kettle. You have sat there and typed post after post insulting peoples' opinions and where they get their credibility from.

[insightofitall]

Originally Posted by Traveler87

I don't get that impression from you at all. I am right there with you on people choosing the suburbs or the city, I want progress in both. I am tired of the constant bashing of Cincinnati from certain posters. Just like I am sure certain posters are tired of the constant bashing of the suburbs. I just find the posters picking on the city to go way over the top and act like it is hell on Earth, and this is before anyone else has even posted in the thread.

I know. And I agree with what you're saying. I don't like all the bashing that takes place, period. I agree people should live where they want, free of the excoriation that comes from those who disagree with them. But it just seems like I (and others like me), as someone who lives in the "suburbs", have always had to do a hell of a lot more fending off of the wolves who have wanted to attack where I live and what it has to offer for those of us who ENJOY this kind of lifestyle, compared to those who have had to fend off the people who attack the urban lifestyle. Recently I've read a constant barrage of scathing articles about the death of the suburb and resurgence of the urban core, and no one seems to want to publish articles about the positives of the suburbs. We're simply relegated off to the compost pile. So it makes me feel like a piece of flea dung. (Hopefully what I just wrote made sense. ) As it is, I now live within the city limits of Oxford, so I'm not sure I actually live in a suburb...but I used to live in West Chester before moving here. So my frame of reference comes from when I lived there.

This has gotten way off topic, as it's supposed to be about the streetcars. And I've already said what I have to say about that.

Have a great new year, guys.

[insightofitall]

Originally Posted by Sarah Perry

Well, I'm interested in your ideas, particularly since you don't seem stupid to me. Please share.

Thank you. But I'm not sure this is the correct thread. Maybe I could work it into a different one.

[Traveler87]

Originally Posted by insightofitall

I know. And I agree with what you're saying. I don't like all the bashing that takes place, period. I agree people should live where they want, free of the excoriation that comes from those who disagree with them. But it just seems like I (and others like me), as someone who lives in the "suburbs", have always had to do a hell of a lot more fending off of the wolves who have wanted to attack where I live and what it has to offer for those of us who ENJOY this kind of lifestyle, compared to those who have had to fend off the people who attack the urban lifestyle. Recently I've read a constant barrage of scathing articles about the death of the suburb and resurgence of the urban core, and no one seems to want to publish articles about the positives of the suburbs. We're simply relegated off to the compost pile. So it makes me feel like a piece of flea dung. (Hopefully what I just wrote made sense. ) As it is, I now live within the city limits of Oxford, so I'm not sure I actually live in a suburb...but I used to live in West Chester before moving here. So my frame of reference comes from when I lived there.

This has gotten way off topic, as it's supposed to be about the streetcars. And I've already said what I have to say about that.

Have a great new year, guys.

You as well.

[Matthew Hall]

I would simply have everyone pay their own way, which they haven't done for decades, and let the chips fall where they may. Of course, they would fall closer to the center without the massive subsidization of mortgage interest deductions, fannie mae, roads built with non-gas tax money. If you want more space, you should have to pay for it yourself. If you can't afford it, too bad. I shouldn't have to pay for your new roads, sewers, etc. while I never use them.

[neilworms2]

It's valid because the inference is that the suburbanites should all move back into the city core....but there simply aren't enough residential units in the city core to house 1.9 million extra people. The population of downtown is what, maybe 12,000 currently? All this negativity I hear coming from Matthew Hall about the suburbs....I'm not hearing any solutions. So what WOULD the solution be...move us all back into the city? My point is...WHERE would we all live?

No one has properly addressed the 1.9 million, (though Cincinnati's MSA is more like 2.1 million (City data's info is different than Wikipedias and doesn't have the 2010 census - Cincinnati)

Cincinnati would look something like this:
Vancouver City - YouTube - though obviously without the beautiful Pac Northwest nature surrounding it. Here's a bit more intimate look at what Vancover looks like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OescTqcvp_w

Vancouver is a good comparison for an ultra dense version of Cincinnati as its MSA has 2.1 million as well - Vancouver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even then Vancouver as 600,000 people living in its city limits, so basically there would need to be even MORE highrises than are shown here. OTR would be completely refilled, and I'd say that Queensgate and anywhere where there is a surface lot in or around downtown would be a residential skyscraper ala the main area of Vancouver - and Queensgate would be a good place for this because, well it was kind of destroyed mid-centruy when neighborhoods like Kenyon-Barr and Liberty-Dalton were torn down for a cheap low rate industrial park.

I don't think all 2.1 million people of the Cincinnati MSA would move into Cincinnati if Cincy never experienced white flight en mass, but I could very well see Cincy looking a lot more like Vancouver with a population of 600-800 thousand people. To facilitate this kind of density though there would need to be an excellent transit system consisting of buses and trains, the unused subway would be actually used, and there would be lines going throughout the city. Also there is NO WAY if Cincinnati were that dense would everyone be living in tenement style housing, there has been quite a bit of technological advancement since the 1800s in terms of buildings to house high density population, and as much as I love the old architecture that wouldn't be an ideal way of housing that density.

I'm hoping OTR gets around the 15,000 ppl/sq mile, because while that's dense, it would be reasonably comfortable living without being too cramped in the buildings that were designed for 2x that density. The neighborhood I live in Chicago is about that dense, but with a lot more detached single family houses chopped up into apartments (including "Garden Units" which is a euphemism for basement apartments) - I wouldn't be surprised if my neighborhood was originally designed for lower destiny than it has now... so in Cincy's case it would be the opposite way around.

[CinciFan]

Just out of curiosity, what is the current densest neighborhood in the city, and what is it's people per square mile? Downtown?

Neilworms, I completely agree that packing all of Cincinnati's metro population into the city limits is impractical. While Vancouver looks like a very nice city, I think I would rather have the building stock we have now (which has character), as opposed to having glass skyscrapers everywhere (and the level of density that comes with it).

By the way, I love seeing the pictures you post on Urban Ohio showing the infill in Chicago. There are a lot of empty lots in OTR, and although Mercer Commons may not be the best fit for the neighborhood (though still a very welcome improvement), I am holding out hope that the infill in Cincinnati will reach that level of quality sooner rather than later.

[Yac]

I'd like to remind everybody to stick to the topic, some off topic is ok - too much and I'll be forced to close the thread.
Yac.