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Old 11-13-2011, 10:31 AM
 
10,139 posts, read 22,504,396 times
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It is hard work to get out of poverty. Who would do it if the choice is standing on the corner, smoking some weed, head back to the crib, momma makes some dinner, play a little Call of Duty on the Xbox, boost some cell phones and dvd's from cars on the corner, get drunk on a 40, inseminate a girl down the block and crash at a buddy's. Or, get a job washing dishes at night, stay in school, end up with a minimum wage job, work for 10 years and go to night school the whole time, and eventually make enough to support (with tax dollars) your homeys who did none of those things.

As it relates to Maslow's heirarchy of needs, our socialistic society has cut off the entire bottom of the pyramid. Sure, most everyone can be motivated to come to work the first day and be the top dog. But, it takes cold and hunger to get a guy to jump down into a muddy trench and shovel for 10 hours.

Cold and hunger, fear of starvation, these primary motivators that make truly poor people overcome their situation, no longer exist in this country and that is the source of the dilemma. How to get them to do the right thing. But, when people come here from a place where people do starve to death if they don't work, magic. They get out of poverty just fine. Until we are willing to have people cold and hungry we will have an underclass, of zombies, voting for more benefits and an easier life and the doers will get smaller and the takers will get bigger until we are Greece.

Sissyfied liberals cannot stand the guilt. But, in reality, they are the cause of the problem, not the solution.

Last edited by Wilson513; 11-13-2011 at 10:43 AM..

 
Old 11-13-2011, 11:17 AM
 
6,351 posts, read 18,933,875 times
Reputation: 9895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson513 View Post
It is hard work to get out of poverty. Who would do it if the choice is standing on the corner, smoking some weed, head back to the crib, momma makes some dinner, play a little Call of Duty on the Xbox, boost some cell phones and dvd's from cars on the corner, get drunk on a 40, inseminate a girl down the block and crash at a buddy's. Or, get a job washing dishes at night, stay in school, end up with a minimum wage job, work for 10 years and go to night school the whole time, and eventually make enough to support (with tax dollars) your homeys who did none of those things.

As it relates to Maslow's heirarchy of needs, our socialistic society has cut off the entire bottom of the pyramid. Sure, most everyone can be motivated to come to work the first day and be the top dog. But, it takes cold and hunger to get a guy to jump down into a muddy trench and shovel for 10 hours.

Cold and hunger, fear of starvation, these primary motivators that make truly poor people overcome their situation, no longer exist in this country and that is the source of the dilemma. How to get them to do the right thing. But, when people come here from a place where people do starve to death if they don't work, magic. They get out of poverty just fine. Until we are willing to have people cold and hungry we will have an underclass, of zombies, voting for more benefits and an easier life and the doers will get smaller and the takers will get bigger until we are Greece.

Sissyfied liberals cannot stand the guilt. But, in reality, they are the cause of the problem, not the solution.
Wilson, you know that this "Sissified Liberal" agrees with you on many issues. Yeah, we need to tighten up our entitlement programs. No doubt, people need a hand up, not a hand out. But until the fat cats are stopped from giving those of us who bust our butts making them rich a fair share of the largess of this great nation, we'll always be stuck in this rut. Most of us working stiffs support the intelligent Occupy Wall Street participants (and, no, not just the ill-informed and naiive occupiers that Fox Noise and the rest of the American Pravda Media love interviewing). It's just that we're too damn busy busting our butts making the system work and making the fat cats richer to let our voices be heard. Yeah, like WLW would really let me have my say, anyway...)

You know, I'm truly glad that We the People in Ohio (vs. the money in Warren & Butler Counties) were able to send a strong message to Governor Kasich and his union-busting cronies. BUt there's no rest for the weary. Even though I'm not a union member and not sure if being one would benefit me, anyway) I truly believe it's way past time for real woking Ohioans to gear up to fight "Right to Work" legislation. Labor DOES have a rightful place at the table.
 
Old 11-13-2011, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Indianapolis and Cincinnati
682 posts, read 1,391,526 times
Reputation: 610
When LBJ adopted the great "Welfare experiment" we began an adventure where we largely destroyed the family unit. Prior to the "mass governmental experiment" in "making things better". Individuals were responsible for getting themselves out of the mess they were in. NOW we had private charities to lend a hand up.

We changed the rules . Made it impossible for welfare families to have a head of household and keep government housing. Our 'entitlement society" is now at the point where spolied brats of wealthy families (occupy wallstreet) want those of us who work to pay their student loans for majors that had no relevance in todays world. The problem is with an educational system that lets people get worthless degrees in the first place.

We have become a LAZY society where people with no diploma , and no skill, wants to be paid 20 bucks and hour to make beds in a hotel.

Life is not FAIR. However you do not have to be poor. IFm you apply yourself. this is one country with a decent educational system that can work.

I am a first generation American. First to get a college degree ( 3 in fact) NEVER had a student loan , I worked my way throgh college and trust me, my parents could have cared less about my education ( way too self absorbed). BTW I have NEVER drawn a dollar in unemployment or any other 'aid' in my life. Growing up poor does not mean you have to stay poor, that's a socialist myth.

As a business owner (on paper) I am, part of that "evil" 1 percent. I made more than 367K last year. That is what the 1 percent starts at in case you didn't know. Those of you who own a business know of course that is not real income, you file that way. Oh by the way that 1 percent pays 18 percent of the taxes in this country right now.

In fact , it's employers who really pay ALL the taxes. We create the jobs that make it possible for other to work and make money so taxes come out of their income. WHICH employers created the income for in the first place.

MY car is 10 years old, I don't own a jet, I don't have a house in the Hamptons, my last vacation was in 2003. BUT you know what? I am am not that lazy person wanting someone else to give me stuff... and I never intend to be.

Tired of making excuses for the poor. This is the greatest country on Earth and if you cant make it, its entiirely your OWN Fault. It is time for REAL welfare reform and if you care about others do what I do and donate to charities that help people who REALLY need it, BUT, it should not be mandatory via taxes.

The unfortunate thing is we have a socialist president and people who do not know what it means to get off your rear end and work for living because this government gives you everything. I hope that changes in 2012!
 
Old 11-13-2011, 10:47 PM
 
405 posts, read 755,674 times
Reputation: 140
How much do any of you actually know about "welfare"?

I admit I don't know much. Here is what I have found out:

"Welfare" is the wrong term-- it was changed to "TANF" under Bill Clinton (temporary assistance to needy families) in 1996.

Ohio calls its TANF : "OWF" (Ohio works first)

The Feds give money to the states in a block. The states have to decide how to give the money out locally.

There were four purposes to TANF:
(1) provide assistance to needy families so that children may be cared for in their own homes or in the homes of relatives;
(2) end the dependence of needy parents on government benefits by promoting job preparation, work, and marriage;
(3) prevent and reduce the incidence of out-of-wedlock pregnancies and establish annual numerical goals for preventing and reducing the incidence of these pregnancies; and
(4) encourage the formation and maintenance of two-parent families.

Policy Basics: An Introduction to TANF — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities

In 1996, there were on average 12 Million welfare recipients per month. In 2010 this was down to 4 million-- a huge reduction.

Some other aspects of the program:
1) The federal government limits any person to 5 years assistance in their whole life
2) Single parents are required to participate in work activities for at least 30 hours per week. Two-parent families must participate in work activities 35 or 55 hours a week, depending upon circumstances.
3) States, in FY 2004, have to ensure that 50 percent of all families and 90 percent of two-parent families are participating in work activities.
4) Paternity of children must be established in order to receive benefits

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_Assistance_for_Needy_Families

A lot of people seem to think that welfare is a permanent benefit to anyone with no strings attached. That used to be the case but not any more.
However, I am guessing that people could still qualify for benefits by having children that allow them to keep getting benefits. I am not certain if this is a loophole.

How much does TANF cost? It looks to have a yearly budget of 33 Billion. The Federal Budget is 3.46 Trillion. That means TANF is less than 1% of the federal budget.

Social Security - 20% of the budget, Medicare/Medicaid = 23%, Defense = 20%.

Thus to really solve the budget problems long term the big money is in those areas (especially Medicare/Medicaid with its rapidly rising costs as the population ages).
 
Old 11-14-2011, 05:51 AM
Yac
 
5,882 posts, read 6,314,758 times
The topic was intriguing, but the way some of you approached it ... all I can say is:
Closed.
Yac.
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