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..And as for Steve-o, I assume that 'CTown' stands for Chicago. I knew you would get flustered when CTownNative threw your city under a bus by declaring it inferior, thus offering it up for critique and comparison. I'm just like you, though, and I like to vent and stick up for my hometown. We're both close to being reprimanded for being too personal, but I do agree that the people of Chicago, as well as New York, know how to defend their hometown. People in L. A. aren't that interested. Theyll crap on it first. Sometimes I feel like the only one defending it, and that just mystifies me. I just believe that Chicago is more of a self-made town and is more justified in doing so, whereas New York... not so much. I've been defending my hometown of Los Angeles to my friends here in Las Vegas all of my life- it's what I do.They just hate it! I also am never asked to elaborate on L. A., and I don't hang around people waiting to interject my L. A. stories the way someone from New York would. But I'll defend my hometown here. Just like you. Show me your town, I'd be greatly interested. I'm not the prude I sound like in print. I don't respect it, but I wouldn't mind seeing how New York has changed in the 33 years since I've been there. CTown however, may have had a bad experience with something L. A. oriented. You just don't write off the experience of going somewhere you've never been to. He's so insistent on it! Ahh..teenagers. Who's better? I know this: Tokyo makes us all look like a park.
Nice post! I would agree that we're both quite defensive of our areas (even if I dont live in Chicago proper, I still defend her). lol With that being said, theres really no point in arguing this anymore. Both Chicago and LA are very similar in many aspects, yet worlds apart in others. Both have pros and cons of course, both are huge metros, etc, etc. Lets just sit back and enjoy the fact that we live in great areas.
Lammius, your map never quite got out of the gate, but from what I've gathered, it illustrates my point. The big green area representing what I think is the 5 county metro area of Los Angeles is twice the size, in area, of New York's. Any extra information wasn't represented. The people in that green area reside more toward the coast. San Diego isn't even counted, yet it's right there. However, New York's blue area runs up and down the east coast, taking in millions of people in what looks like Connecticut and New Jersey and Pennsylvania. You may think that's all right, L. A.'s metro seems twice the size in area, the counties involved go right up to the Nevada state line. But, have you ever driven out from L. A. to Victorville? Mountains in between. From Victorville to the state line? Barstow and Baker. The county areas extend far, but the people are basically on the coast. There is no one in that desert and hasn't been for the 30 years that I've been driving I-15. So, be content to have a New York metro count all of those out of state heads, Los Angeles doesn't have to to compete with you.
Right. The LA CSA includes a lot of areas that are "not metro." And it includes the LA "metro" area as well, because the counties out there are huge and include both types of areas. San Diego? It's a separate area. There isn't adequate exchange between the two areas yet to make them one CSA. Maybe in the future there will be. If you look at the east coast and Midwest there are tons of metros that are "right there" (bordering/seemingly overlapping) too. Maybe the next Census will reveal a new set of CSAs.
Yet again (I don't know why this doesn't make sense to you yet), out-of-state or in-state doesn't matter. State boundaries do not indicate metropolitan influence. MSAs and CSAs are designated county-by-county (or town-by-town in New England), regardless of what state they're in. If County X has a tie to County Y (indicated by commuting patterns) then it's a metro county, regardless of what states County X and County Y are in.
And this isn't about competition. I'm trying to explain to you how the Census works and help you understand that these theories you keep repeating all over these message boards about conspiracies and "double counts" are outlandish and terribly incorrect. Please study up on the Census (particularly MSAs and CSAs). Wikipedia and the census.gov website are good starts.
You may not get that I'm not on board with this. There is plenty of 'traffic' between San Diego and Los Angeles. Historically, they've grown up together. Traffic patterns. There's traffic between Las Vegas and Los Angeles too. I live in Las Vegas. There would be no Las Vegas without L. A. I wouldn't suggest that Las Vegas be included in L. A.'s msa or csa or whatever you call it. New York would, and that's my point. This forced assimilation of one city's personal identity on a larger area for , not the reason of patterns of traffic, but the mere suggestion that that city holds ultimate influence over others, is exactly what I'm trying to get across to you. It's the reason I have no respect for the Census Bureau or New York, for that matter, and I'm not studying up on anything pertaining to this ridiculous notion. If there is a hugh conglomerated area in the northeast, don't give everyones very identity over to the city that just happens to be the largest in the area at that time. Give that area another name altogether. Essex county, New Jersey. Got to be one of those New York counties, I guess. Is that where the New York teams play? Why don't you guys grow a pair?
You may not get that I'm not on board with this. There is plenty of 'traffic' between San Diego and Los Angeles. Historically, they've grown up together. Traffic patterns. There's traffic between Las Vegas and Los Angeles too. I live in Las Vegas. There would be no Las Vegas without L. A. I wouldn't suggest that Las Vegas be included in L. A.'s msa or csa or whatever you call it. New York would, and that's my point. This forced assimilation of one city's personal identity on a larger area for , not the reason of patterns of traffic, but the mere suggestion that that city holds ultimate influence over others, is exactly what I'm trying to get across to you. It's the reason I have no respect for the Census Bureau or New York, for that matter, and I'm not studying up on anything pertaining to this ridiculous notion. If there is a hugh conglomerated area in the northeast, don't give everyones very identity over to the city that just happens to be the largest in the area at that time. Give that area another name altogether. Essex county, New Jersey. Got to be one of those New York counties, I guess. Is that where the New York teams play? Why don't you guys grow a pair?
There may be lots of traffic, but moving (or not so moving) cars don't define metro areas. If they did, all of I-95 would be one metro region! I think I-90 between Cleveland and Chicagoland would be one too.
"New York would, and that's my point." Your point is way off and that's my point. If Bloomberg pointed to Hartford, CT and said "I want that in the New York CSA" it wouldn't happen (unless he got thousands of people to move there and agree to commute to NYC every day and fill out their Census forms in 2010). There's no local government participation in this stuff. It's based on how you and I fill out our Census forms. If you think San Diego should be in the LA CSA, get yourself and about 100,000 other people to move down there and commute to LA every day.
Furthermore, MSAs and CSAs are not about "forced assimilation" or even "ultimate influence over others" or egos (having to grow a pair?). They're ways of analyzing population spread, commuting patterns, the daily habits of populations. They explain why there's demand for housing in certain areas, why growth can be expected to occur in certain areas/corridors, etc. There's a reason Northern New Jersey is as developed/crowded/trafficky as it is. That's because people live here and work here to be part of this huge metropolitan market and undoubtedly New York City has something to do with how this all happened. Newark and Jersey City would be important cities without New York, but they thrive off of being part of this huge metropolitan area. It's a huge selling point and a reason people want to be there. The full name of the region is the New York-Newark-Bridgeport, NY-NJ-CT- PA CSA. NJ isn't bowing to anybody, neither is CT. If you ever come here you'll quickly see that this is one huge metropolitan unit.
P.S. The New York Giants and New York Jets play in Bergen County, not Essex. Essex County is home to the New Jersey Devils. What about Anaheim? Or does the inclusion "of anaheim" in the smallest font ever constitute "a pair"? Should the Washington Redskins be the "Landover, Maryland Redskins" or how about the "Foxboro Patriots"? Blah.
Boswash Megalopolis is the name, although I believe unofficial, for the areas stretching from Boston to DC which holds about I believe 40% of the US population. There's a good map on Wikipedia.
MSA's and CMSA's not purely based on census. Census obviously uses the data they receive to count the population of each and every community, metros are determined through the correlation of different communities. If so many % of say Orange County commutes to LA, then guess what, it's the burbs and is part of LA.
Vegas might not exist without LA because it's close enough to visit and it's cheaper to live (so many from LA move there), but it's not remotely close enough to be part of the area. In fact there's a vast no man's land inbetween.
additionaly, since metro's are not more specific than counties, people tend confuse what that means. The population center of most counties is not evenly distributed across the entire county, so just because metros may touch(border) each other, doesn't mean they will join anytime soon.
Many have, and many won't. It's the connection between the 2 counties, not the merely the fact that they neighbor that matters.
Boswash Megalopolis is the name, although I believe unofficial, for the areas stretching from Boston to DC which holds about I believe 40% of the US population. There's a good map on Wikipedia.
Wikipedia is going to tell me that ' Boswash ' holds 120 million people! There's an illustration of my point. Lammius, what makes you think that mouse of a mayor you call Bloomberg doesn't get behind the podium he calls home and points his finger at whatever he wants to acquire? He's already got you in New York doing things I'll bet you never thought you'd do! Boswash? Should be called Hogwash!
It had a group named after it...Chicago Transit Authority, later shortened to Chicago when they abandoned their rock roots.
Oprah is in Chicago, if you like Oprah.
Name of a musical.
My kind of town...song.
I think all of these towns have their own flavor. I can't say one is better than the other.
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