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I would agree with not verbalizing we don't hire Blacks.
I will say walking around the financial district during lunch and rush hour away from government offices, you see very few Blacks dressed in business attire. While in Philadelphia, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta and DC (ofcourse) you see a different story.
The mom & pop stores and restaurants seem to be more vocal. On the north side, many businesses don't hire blacks and will say proudly they will hire who they want. I know several unemployed African American bartenders, waitresses and waiters. The local bars want to maintain a certain image. There are plenty of Black bouncers but not much of anything else.
I can recall a friend going to a fantastic new restaurant with awesome service and food, my Black friend had to compliment the owner and said that they will definitely recommend the place to their friends. The owner then ruined the evening by telling them that they didn't want too many of the "brothas" knowing about the place.
The stories about race goes on and on in this town. You would not believe it unless you experience it.
You're confusing indirect racism with "what's out there." Just because there's not many blacks working at an investment firm doesn't mean they have a weird, non verbal "no blacks!" hiring policy. That's just illogical and jumping to conclusions. Most companies are moral in their hiring practices in the sense that they don't hire you, no matter who you are, if they don't feel you can do the job. One day we had 3 black guys interview for two positions, amongst others, but we hired none of them. It had absolutely nothing to do with "omg they're black." It had to do with the fact that the other candidates happened to be stronger than them on that day and we felt they were a better fit for the positions. By the way, in my building, which is a big skyscraper sharing with many prominent businesses known around the world, there's numerous blacks working in there I see everyday, all professional jobs. Perhaps you are in the wrong section of the Loop. Everytime I go to the Chipotle for lunch across from where I work, there's always many blacks in there wearing nice business clothing.
I have NEVER, EVER seen or heard a restaurant here verbalize that they will not hire black people. Do you realize this is illegal to even verbalize? For the love of god, even if they believe that, most people aren't stupid enough to actually say it in this day and age. It's funny because I actually know African American bartenders in my neighborhood of Gold Coast, and all of the places they work at are upscale establishments that work to maintain an amazing image. One of them, in fact, works at a very upscale lounge inside the Waldorf Astoria (formerly Elysian), which is the most expensive hotel in town and might have the most hoity toity guests in the city. I know what your personal beef is with the northside, but some of the **** you say just seems completely out there with this, no offense. Even some of the stuffiest places have black wait staff. Gibson's, Luxbar, Le Bar at the Sofitel Hotel, Bernard's at the Waldorf Astoria, The Drawing Room, Le Colonial all have black wait staff and bartenders in the Gold Coast and that's just on one street. All of these places are very concerned with their image and not exactly cheap places.
You paint this picture that there's signs in windows here that say "No blacks" and people are saying it and I'm sorry, but nothing is further than the truth. This isn't 1955 - even saying that today will get you in trouble with the law. 99.9% of people who own businesses aren't stupid enough to say this - they know it will 1) spell disaster for their business, and 2) probably get them in trouble with the law as they own a business and that is *illegal*
I'm not saying things are never racist, because they can be, but the stuff you say about this is just hard to believe, I'm sorry. Especially saying "Well one time I was in the Loop at Randolph for 30 minutes and I didn't see many blacks so therefore these companies have a no black hiring policy." You're smarter than this to jump to conclusions. What you're doing is no different than what racists and bigots do when they generalize about something without any basis. You remind me of a friend of mine, who is part Hispanic, who thinks that anybody who ever looks at him weirdly is certainly because he's Hispanic. He's not even aware that he doesn't look Hispanic and looks Italian/French instead and that things aren't as simple sometimes as that.
I do have black friends who live in the north side and don't complain much about racism here. And it's not because I'm non-black -- they are open with me about a lot because they know I'm open minded. The one time I only heard my friend complain about it was when he had to go to Bridgeport for something and he wasn't aware that the neighborhood changed. He was afraid to go there, but after his first visit he realized how much it changed and he goes there all the time now. I have other friends who hold professional positions or work in hospitality at nice places in town. Not to mention the handful of African Americans I work with at my office, not counting the numerous others that work on the floor above me.
Last edited by marothisu; 04-18-2014 at 10:19 AM..
I would agree with not verbalizing we don't hire Blacks.
I will say walking around the financial district during lunch and rush hour away from government offices, you see very few Blacks dressed in business attire. While in Philadelphia, Dallas, Houston, Atlanta and DC (ofcourse) you see a different story.
The mom & pop stores and restaurants seem to be more vocal. On the north side, many businesses don't hire blacks and will say proudly they will hire who they want. I know several unemployed African American bartenders, waitresses and waiters. The local bars want to maintain a certain image. There are plenty of Black bouncers but not much of anything else.
I can recall a friend going to a fantastic new restaurant with awesome service and food, my Black friend had to compliment the owner and said that they will definitely recommend the place to their friends. The owner then ruined the evening by telling them that they didn't want too many of the "brothas" knowing about the place.
The stories about race goes on and on in this town. You would not believe it unless you experience it.
I'm not black, but I am half Middle Eastern and I'm typically straight up brown over the summer. I have not experienced these problems on the North Side (where I live btw), and neither have my other Middle Eastern, Hispanic, and black friends who live up there.
Maybe we've been extraordinarily lucky, while you have been unlucky and had to deal with such things, but I frankly have a heard time believing some of this.
This also isn't a personal stab, but I thought that I'd bring up that I've had the displeasure of meeting far more racist people (in terms of numbers) in the city of St. Louis and its suburbs than in Chicago and some of its suburbs. Maybe in that regard you've been lucky and me unlucky, but I bring it up because I know you're moving there and there definitely seems to be a huge disconnect from your perspective and mine when it comes to both of these cities.
Yes, Philadelphia's history has been by no means immune to racism. However, I'm a pretty skeptical of the claim than you'd have a harder time as a minority in a city like Philadelphia compared to a "sundown town" in rural Mississippi.
I don't think that was my point. Just that I was treated better in the deep South than Philadelphia.
Chicago sounds more racist than any of the southern cities. How ironic.
Haven't been to Chicago, but I know that in its history, the level of racism in 20th century Chicago was reputed to be even worse than some cities in the South.
Unless a person has lived in all four cities, answering this question can be difficult. Visiting isn't the same as living there. Reading a newspaper article doesn't suffice. Watching channel zero to assess a city doesn't suffice.
Everyday, Black people become more and more insignificant in this country. Most of us still have a slave mentality. That is, our goal in life is to obtain employment (legal or otherwise) and subsequently spend our income on trinkets that enhance other folk, to our detriment.
We love to engage in fantasy. We love to believe that all we have to do is move to the newest Shangri-La, (Chicago and other Northern cities used to be) and all will be well! RIDICULOUS!
Until Black on Black relations are optimized, wherever we exist, we will continue to complain about race relations, unemployment, discrimination, etc. There is only one relation that needs fixing: OURS!
Unfortunately, Black folk are bar none, the most NON-discriminatory folk on the planet! Anyone can come and set up shop in our neighborhood. Anyone can and does sell us death, and we gladly pay exorbitant prices for it! We EAT a lot of Mexican food, Chinese food, Mediterranean food, etc. Doesn't matter to us. Truthfully people, how many times have you seen Chinese, Indians, etc., patronizing Black owned eateries? Only a FOOL doesn't feed, clothe, and shelter himself!
I'm not black, but I am half Middle Eastern and I'm typically straight up brown over the summer. I have not experienced these problems on the North Side (where I live btw), and neither have my other Middle Eastern, Hispanic, and black friends who live up there.
Maybe we've been extraordinarily lucky, while you have been unlucky and had to deal with such things, but I frankly have a heard time believing some of this.
Yeah, I'm part Middle Eastern and look a number of different things to many people (some people think I'm Hispanic/Spanish, others Middle Eastern, others even think I'm mixed Asian with something else. A few of my Indian friends even thought I was northern Indian/Pakistani). Many people think I am Lebanese. Never have received a comment in Chicago - the only close one was when I went to Edgewater and there was this sidewalk sale of CDs. I was looking at it, and it was mostly R&B, and the guy made a comment about me not knowing any of the stuff. When I said I wasn't really white, he's like "oh well...in that case! hahaha..go right ahead."
Other than that - I've been in two long interracial relationships (one from Asia, the other's mom was from Mexico) in the last 3 years, and also last summer went out with a black girl for a few months. I never once received any comments, and the only time I received any weird looks was when I went out with the black girl. But it was from a few older black people and I don't think they were saying "wtf?" in their heads. I also tend to date more ethnic women as I've been on dates with a handful of Asian women, a few black women, and a few Hispanic women. Have never once been treated unfairly or gotten any comments with anybody and I live on the north side. The black girl I dated lived in the south suburbs, but came up to the north side quite a bit for at least a few years because she liked downtown, Lincoln Park, and Lakeview. We talked about this subject actually, and the history of racism in Chicago. She told me she didn't really experience it like her parents told her about.
I also talked to one of my former doormen about this - he's a big, intimidating looking black man who looks like he should be playing for the Bears but he wouldn't hurt a fly (unless he had to in which case I'd not like to be on the receiving end of him). He told me the only major crap he got while on the north side from people was from older women. They would clutch their purses when they passed he said but he said that most younger (i.e. 20s, 30s, and 40s) people didn't care (though he mentioned a few younger women clutching their purses, but not that many). Honestly with a lot of the world it seems to be the older folk who can't let go of stuff. I also just asked a friend of mine who is from Puerto Rico and has an accent about his experiences - he said the most **** he gets is actually from Mexicans and other Puerto Ricans who are pissed he doesn't live in the Puerto Rican neighborhood, but a white person in Chicago has never said anything to his face, according to him. He also said he rarely gets the above thing from Mexicans or Puerto Ricans - just a handful of times.
I also grew up in Minnesota, where I had to personally deal with bigots and racism quite a bit. I even had death threats on me for no reason because of what I am. When I went to college in Iowa, it continued, but not as badly as in Minnesota. So I am aware of what it's like to be targeted due to racism and I have yet to be targeted in any way, even while dating interracially, in Chicago. I've only witnessed legitimately one racist fueled incident in the five years that I have been here. Funny thing is that Puerto Rican friend used to live in Minnesota and said he's gotten things called to his face by white people a few times in Minnesota, but "never in Chicago."
Not trying to say there's no problems at ALL - there are obviously and I think Black/White relations are the worst of any. The others seem fairly tame in comparison in Chicago, but just going off of what my black friends say. They say these days they have experienced it, but not that often directly and back in the day used to be worse for sure. That's their experiences and what they told me, not mine. Everyone may have a difference experience of course.
Last edited by marothisu; 04-18-2014 at 09:09 PM..
First of all you have proven yourself totally ignorant on several occasions when it comes to the black experience in Chicago.
How dare you try to discredit anyone's testimony on their personal experiences in any city just because you haven't experienced it as a non black minority.
I believe you disclosed that you are an hr professional for a company with ethical hiring practices? If that is the case and you've been in the field for longer than 10 years you are not telling the truth when writing that there isn't a problem with discrimination in the workplace. You, given the demographic information about yourself, should know that small business owners can get away with a lot of things and they do verbalize it.
otoh, I do think it's ballsy for a manager to express that they don't hire blacks in a major company. I don't find it hard to believe and is opening the door to be sitting in the unemployment lines for a very long time.
I feel the situation that you have experience in other Midwestern states with death threats to your family. That is not a good experience for anyone and is far more than I or anyone I know have experienced but I can't deny it. I hope you can see where I'm going with this.
There are many things that you offer great advice on based upon your experience of living and interacting with Chicago but the Black experience is not one of them. You can't claim to be urbane, progressive and open minded if you refuse to listen to people's story.
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