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If we want to get all technical, there is no Philly accent in the way there is a Boston and New York one. It can be said that DV extends into other states outside of PA. The Boston and NY ones don't.
That's really not true in the least.
Again, as others have noted, you're cherry-picking a couple of similarities and extrapolating to an entire region. Why would an accent be referred to as "Delaware Valley English," if it's not distinctive to the Delaware Valley?
There's a reason why, as someone who grew up in Southeastern PA and have lived outside of the region for some time now and have a solid basis of comparison in terms of regional linguistics, that I can spot a Philly/South Jersey accent from a mile away.
For example, when I moved to Boston area, I remember watching the local weather, listening to the meteoroligst talk (Danielle Vollmar of WCVB), thinking that she had to be from the Philly area. Just out of curiosity, I quickly Googled, and sure enough, she's a Lansdale, PA native.
The point is--by trying to generalize overall accent features, particularly when you're talking about this very theoretically, you're missing a lot of nuances of dialects (local vernacular, for one) that can only truly be captured by one's ear, as opposed to a purely academic description.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killakoolaide
For Philly the world heritage site(s) sealed the deal. It is international recognized as the birthplace of the US and US culture
This a GREAT RECOGNITION of Early US History having Philly as a focal point in the 1700s. It is a honor and Philly HOULD PROMOTE these aspects and sights.
I do wish MORE around Independence Hall was preserved. So as to not merely some historic 1700 buildings among others around it. But ENOUGH to have had a WHOLE INDEPENDENCE PARK separate from the rest of Downtown. But that did not happen.
But the 20th century was AMERICA'S True century of coming of age and development of AMERICAN.... NOT A BRITÃŽSH INSPIRED ARCHITECTURE AND CULTURAL CITY. Philly was in the 1700s. William Penn's "Greene Countrie Towne" was quickly abandoned as HÃŽS PLANS had streets SUB-DIVIDED to get more tight Row-homes in more cheaply.....especially by the late 1800s.
Most US major cities had THE HUGE BULK of their Growth during the 20th century. NYC to LA, Chicago to Philly.
My point is Philly KEPT British inspired Row-homes.... as its STANDARD variety well through the 20th century. Along with Baltimore. Boston left Row housing building and Midwest cities did MUCH LESS....
Chicago having a Great Fire in 1871 and "Second" city arise again. Set more guidelines to building a city. Housing
Set-backs from streets,
a wider street-grid
with a full alley system and
VIRTUALLY BANNED TENEMENTS.
By the 20th century. Row housing was mostly shunned.
The city BECAME FILLED WITH GREEN FRONTAGE to lots of trees.
Mostly some Victorian varieties of Rows got built in the 1800s.
the Cottage homes for the masses caught on and its bungalow belt began in 1910 with its front lawns.
THEY are examples that.... LEAD MORE TO THE NEW AMERICAN STANDARD IN HOUSING that would define the rest of the 20th century... The Single detached home DID BECOME REPRESENTATIVE of American housing. Not Row-homes as especially Philly and Mid-Atlantic region did much much more of. Also the SKYSCRAPER.....became a American standard for its Core Downtown's.
Chicago .... of course, ALSO HAS THE SKYSCRAPER COVERED.... in the Skyscraper began there and still today the city's downtown has some of the nations iconic Architectural landmarks in the evolution of the Skyscraper to more modern fare examples.
***IF the ROW-HOME BEST REPRESENTS AMERICAN-STYLE HOUSING? Then Philly and Baltimore would win.
During the Colombian Exposition World's Fair of 1893. Had PHILLY PROMOTE THE ROW-HOME as the AMERICAN HOME FOR THE MASSES AND FUTURE.... Though for CHICAGO and much of the US.... we know it did not happen as in Philly. The popular Philly exhibit is noted in the BELOW SIGHT....BUT IT DID NOT BECOME THE AMERICAN STANDARD. As the 20th century moved forward.....
BUT PHILLY DID DEVELOPED INTO a 60+%ROW HOMES. Not including Duplex-Double attached homes it has too.
Excerpts from above sight....
"WE WERE, for a time, also the City of Homes.
That’s what they called us at the turn of the 19th century9, when a model of Philadelphia’s ubiquitous two-story, $2,500 “Workingman’s House” was put on display at the Columbian Exposition in Chicago of 1893. (Picture your average smallish South Philly rowhome; that’s what we’re talking about.) Exhibition attendees (there were some 25 million of them) marveled at this appealing alternative to the depressing tenements that populated other cities, delighted by the home’s relative comfort, the efficiency, the accessibility."
Another excerpt;
"I don’t know whether the Philadelphians of 1893 thought of themselves as triumphant, necessarily, but there was no denying even then that the rowhome was a natural fit here. No matter that poor William Penn had designed a spacious, sprawling “greene country towne.” All that gridded sprawl turned out to be so easily subdivided that Penn’s idyllic vision never stood a chance. Especially once it became clear that rowhomes were so cheap(ish) to build, owing to the way Philadelphia landowners leased plots to people who wanted to build, and also because replicating one design in one spot with one set of workers was so cost-effective. (This is still true.)"
**SO TO ME.... Early history surely would point to Philly as the "Quintessential American City " then... but the 20th century does not in HOUSING CHOICES? Keep Philly as a "Quintessential example" even as a Pennsylvanian.
From Skyscraper to The STANDARDS in more representative AMERICAN HOUSING CHOICES..... CHICAGO DOES....
***SPARE ME ACCUSATIONS OF KNOCKING PHILLY in this "Quintessential American City " thread....
I gave my reasons clearly... PHILLY STILL HAS PLENTY TO BE PROUD OF AND HISTORICALLY and SHOULD BE INCLUDED AS A AMERICAN EXAMPLE CITY. ..... JUST NOT A "Quintessentially" Top example for reason I gave....
**Examples of Chicago housing not including higher-end Victorian stock that is European inspired.
Saying Chicago is the city that pops in your mind is not saying it's better than NYC. To me chicago is American pie, your quintissential American city. Sprawl, good burbs, great downtown, mayberry with a hint of NYC. Everything you want is there, 4 seasons. NYC is our alpha, an international city.
Saying Chicago is the city that pops in your mind is not saying it's better than NYC. To me chicago is American pie, your quintissential American city. Sprawl, good burbs, great downtown, mayberry with a hint of NYC. Everything you want is there, 4 seasons. NYC is our alpha, an international city.
Chicago sounds like it fits into what's considered the most American of all regions. The Midwest is the very definition of Americana.
No it sounds like it fits into the Great Lakes which includes part of the Northeast. In fact a good chunk of it. The true Midwest accent is Midland which is what is spoken in the majority of Illinois, Iowa, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, Indiana, and Ohio.
On the other hand, Great Lakes English is spoken in the whole of ONE state in the Midwest and that is Michigan. All other Midwest states that feature it have it in one small corner of their state. It is spoken in a small portion of Illinois, one city in Missouri, a tiny corner of Indiana, a small sliver of Eastern Wisconsin, and the Lake Erie area of Ohio. It is also spoken in a lot of New York State, Northern Pennsylvania except Erie, and reaches far into the limits of New England. Nice try though.
You beat me to it lol. EddieOlSkool is doing some extreme goal post moving to fit his argument. Also I agree with your assessment that neither accent is extremely identifiable. If you would ask anyone who never visited or is not affiliated with either city they wouldn't be able to identify either of the accents. If you ask a random person where someone with a Philly accent is from they would give an generic answer like "they are from the Northeast", or "east coast"(which is a synonym of the Northeast in real life) or inaccurately say they are from "New York" based off of the dipthongs in words like "cawfee" "tawk" "cawse" in the Philly accent. If they hear someone with the Inland north accent from Chicago they may just say "the midwest" or might just draw blank and couldn't say anything. There are probably only two, maybe three, very identifiable accents in the US and they are the New York, Southern and maybe Boston (the non rhoticity can possibly confuse it with other non rhotoric accents such as the NY accent) accents.
Oh because when they hear a Philadelphian say "awll" for oil and "taw-uhk" for talk and "farr" for fire they're going to guess only the North? Most likely they will think "wtf is this weird thing". You act like those NYisms are the only thing that sets Philly apart. They're gonna hear the long O sound and think NOT New York so what is your point? That's why the Philly accent has a more spread out true American sound because it has features of ALL regions really.
Bajan, what are the Midland features of Chicago? It has no goat/goose fronting, no short a split system / nasal short a system, glide deletion before L or R, or any Midland short vowels. So I am trying to figure out what Midland features Chicago has in its accent.
Besides, you know what accent has its own bubble? St. Louis. It is one of the Inland North dialects that actually is within its own island and is separate from other Inland North and Midland accents. So Philly merely being a bubble within the Midland accent means nothing. Pittsburgh is another bubble within the Midland category and is still Midland. The fact is Philly and the South Jersey/Baltimore area are one greater bubble of the DV English and still with Midland parameters which is why they are called Atlantic Midland. This same category includes General American. Hate to break it to you. Chicago is firmly within Northern accent parameters and this isn't only Labov saying that.
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