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Center City Philly (Its Downtown proclaimed Boundaries) include STRICTLY SOME ROW HOME AND HISTORIC COLONIAL TOTALLY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. But not a image one has of DOWNTOWN.
Chicago's comparable High-End neighborhoods include the Gold Coast, Lincoln Park and Lakeview. They all have Victorian housing mixed throughout. Not Colonial 1700s for sure. Late 1800s yes.
CHICAGO DOES NOT INCLUDE AREAS That DO NOT LOOK like they BELONG AS PART OF A DOWNTOWN.
River North DID develop to be include and was in Downtown with high-rises and former Industrial buildings into Loft living.
I think as I said before.... IT'S TIME....the GOLD COAST HERE TO LINCOLN PARK. BE INCLUDED AS DOWNTOWN. DESPITE BEING ALL RESIDENTIAL. It is CONTINUOUS FROM THE NEAR NORTH THAT IS DOWNTOWN and parts of the Near South Skyscraper living, that was built near Soldier Field too.
Center City Philly (Its Downtown proclaimed Boundaries) include STRICTLY SOME ROW HOME AND HISTORIC COLONIAL TOTALLY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. But not a image one has of DOWNTOWN.
Chicago's comparable High-End neighborhoods include the Gold Coast, Lincoln Park and Lakeview. They all have Victorian housing mixed throughout. Not Colonial 1700s for sure. Late 1800s yes.
CHICAGO DOES NOT INCLUDE AREAS That DO NOT LOOK like they BELONG AS PART OF A DOWNTOWN.
River North DID develop to be include and was in Downtown with high-rises and former Industrial buildings into Loft living.
I think as I said before.... IT'S TIME....the GOLD COAST HERE TO LINCOLN PARK. BE INCLUDED AS DOWNTOWN. DESPITE BEING ALL RESIDENTIAL. It is CONTINUOUS FROM THE NEAR NORTH THAT IS DOWNTOWN and parts of the Near South Skyscraper living, that was built near Soldier Field too.
I'm not going to refute that River North in Chicago should not be included in downtown. Seems to make sense either way.
However, it is bizarre that you're strangely obsessed with row houses in Philly. You do know that other famous downtowns have residential streets that are not developed too differently than what's in Center City, right? For example:
As far as I know, there is no official definition of a downtown. And while Philadelphia is more residential than most, I think that's a good thing because it means it didn't follow the terrible American plan of making downtown into just office buildings. Some areas like Society Hill are quieter, but still plenty vibrant enough to be considered downtown IMO (especially with Market, walnut, chestnut, and south street being part of the neighborhood).
Well, I agree that Philly's "downtown" low rise don't look like a downtown. However, as Gold Coast Chicago resident, I don't think it's accurate to say that there's absolutely nowhere in Chicago's downtown that looks pretty damn residential. There's small sections of River North and Gold Coast south of Division Street that do.
• Urbaneness- Chicago. I have been to both cities.
• COL- ?
• Vibe/Character- Philly is way grittier than Chicago in terms of overall appearance. Even parts of Center City seem gritty. I never got that feeling in downtown Chicago.
• Crime- I have lived in Philly for about 5 years. For the first 2-3 years, it was statistically more dangerous. Where I live actually got more sketchy over the past few years. Even in decent areas, getting robbed and getting stuck up does happen late at night. There are certain streets I always avoid at night if I can. I have walked through North Philly and West Philly during the day time but at night, I always make sure I look around me to make sure I'm not being followed, etc. But I do this everywhere even safe areas.
• Public Transportation- The subway system in Philly can be a little sketchy at times. The bus is fine, I have taken it very late at night. I wouldn't recommend taking it alone, do either subway or bus with a friend if you are traveling after 9pm.
• Walkability- without a doubt Philadelphia. I live in West Philly, I can easily walk over to Chinatown in a 25 minute walk with friends.
• Nightlife- West Philly has a great bar scene BUT I have heard great great things about Chicago's nightlife. It seems to be on par with NYC which IMO is better than Philly's nightlife.
• Food- Food trucks in Philly are amazing. Different cultures everywhere. South Street has some great restaurants so does certain areas in South Philly.
• Culture/Music- Here I can't really tell you to be honest. South Street is very jazz-filled. Haven't spend enough time in Chicago. The hip hop scene is pretty big in Philly. Not uncommon to see people rapping on the subway to be honest. I have seen it at least twice and I have only used the subway about 5-6 times.
• Sports- Both cities LOVE their teams. Almost everyone follows the Philly teams. Chicago has a rich storied history. The baseball teams are ok. Bulls had Michael Jordan. Bears have those 80s teams with Walter Payton. I would actually give the edge to Philadelphia. Philly fans are crazy. It reminds me of the hardcore NYC fans but even more well aware of their team standings.
• Anything else you can think of……..
Philly does seem dirtier to me than Chicago.
If you do live in Philadelphia- try to live as close to Center City as possible and be careful where you decide to live. North Philly for the most part is dangerous and to me seems to have more violence than West Philly. If you live in West Philly, do not walk outside alone after 11pm-12am in certain areas assuming you are living beyond 50th street or somewhere around there.
If you live in Chicago- most of North Chicago is great. Southside Chicago has some decent spots. Hyde Park is decent. West Chicago has some good spots too.
There really aren't much differences between Philly and Chicago. These two cities are also very similar to NYC pre-2001. NYC has become more gentrified to an extent. Manhattan used to be affordable to live in but now it's nearly impossible. Unlike Philly and Chicago, NYC also doesn't have large pockets of "bad areas." Only certain parts of Bronx and Brooklyn are sketchy, doesn't come off as ghetto as Southside Chicago or North Philly and pockets of areas in West Philly.
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• Walkability- without a doubt Philadelphia. I live in West Philly, I can easily walk over to Chinatown in a 25 minute walk with friends.
This is not 'without a doubt' I'm sorry. Philadelphia - very walkable, but there are huge chunks of Chicago that are just as walkable as anything you'll find in Philadelphia.
This is not 'without a doubt' I'm sorry. Philadelphia - very walkable, but there are huge chunks of Chicago that are just as walkable as anything you'll find in Philadelphia.
And going more off of what I mean - according to WalkScore, 16.8% of the population of Chicago lives in neighborhoods with a walk score of at least 90. For Philadelphia, it is 13.8%. At a score of 85, it becomes Philadelphia at 29.9% and Chicago at 29.1%. They're more similar in this regard than you think. Chicago loses points for having larger areas, usually on the outskirts of the city in a few areas, that are not that walkable (i.e. Mount Greenwood) compared to Philadelphia.
Location: East Central Pennsylvania/ Chicago for 6yrs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJNEOA
I'm not going to refute that River North in Chicago should not be included in downtown. Seems to make sense either way.
However, it is bizarre that you're strangely obsessed with row houses in Philly. You do know that other famous downtowns have residential streets that are not developed too differently than what's in Center City, right? For example:
As far as I know, there is no official definition of a downtown. And while Philadelphia is more residential than most, I think that's a good thing because it means it didn't follow the terrible American plan of making downtown into just office buildings. Some areas like Society Hill are quieter, but still plenty vibrant enough to be considered downtown IMO (especially with Market, walnut, chestnut, and south street being part of the neighborhood).
Ok HERE WE GO AGAIN......
San Francisco ROWS are NOTHING LIKE PHILLY'S This Goggle 360°streetview are APARTMENT BUILDINGS NOT HOMES.
Thanks for not refuting that Chicago's Gold Coast is worthy of being officially Downtown.
I did NOT SAY ANYTHING AGAINST ROW HOMES. You have to ADMIT. The 360°streetviews I used. ARE VERY PLEASANT. YES ?
ALL.... find these Colonial and similar to them l Row communities of Center City Philly, I POSTED VERY PLEASANT. Others another story sorry. They are examples that show a LOT of GREEN and TREES. That add to its pleasant quaint feel.
But not every Philly resident in block after block of plain tight Rows on alleyway streets are with trees as this. Many were not built even with them seen as worthy the masses. Build the cheapest housing possible was for them.
I do believe the City ALLOWED William Penn's original "Green City Plan". TO BE PERVERTED with SUBDIVIDING blocks even smaller. William Penn
His ORIGINAL PLAN SAID.... Each quadrant WAS TO HAVE A public square with open green space, today known as Logan, Franklin, Washington, and Rittenhouse Squares. Evenly spaced lots allowed residents to have private outdoor space for gardens and retain a sense of country living within the city. Penn’s was a example, for planning in many early American cities. THE COLONIAL BLOCKS HAD THIS.
As ambitious colonists began to break up the big city blocks of William Penn’s “greene country towne†with secondary streets, alleys, and courts, speculative developers and builders constructed rows of houses that matched varied budgets and taste.
The trend of speculative building meant street-front land was obtainable by builders or investors at an easier rate compared to other major cities. As a result, Philadelphia’s streets, alleys, and courts were lined with relatively homogenous structures of predictable form and design.
REDFIN real estate ...shows the 2nd Tan house on right in West Town Neighborhood. WAS BUILT IN 1889. It is currently for sale for $749,000. In a Gentrified area. THE STANDARD CHICAGO LOT, 25' X 125'. Notice the FRONTAGE. . https://www.redfin.com/IL/Chicago/21.../home/14106255
As I noted in another thread, I will give props to Chicago for doing such a splendid job of incorporating more greenery into it streets--it goes a very long way in improving aesthetics.
In Philadlephia, there are some wonderful, tree-filled neighborhoods, but the city has much progress to make.
Rowhouse neighborhoods definitely aren't for everyone, but I think their appeal among many people is that they are superb for providing for a human-scaled, close-knit "neighborhoody" vibe--all without as much nearly as much auto-oriented disruption as other cities.
With proper investment and revitalization, these neighborhoods are perfect for encouraging street life.
I posted though here to reply to what OTHERS BROUGHT IN about PHILLY'S CLAIM of WHAT IT'S DOWNTOWN AREA IS? Some want to stretch it further. Some want University City added ALREADY.
If YOU wish to say my 360°s used are INACCURATE? For different neighborhoods that ARE CONSIDERED PHILLY'S DOWNTOWN. Surely say so.
I merely wish to make a further comparison to add to what others said. With... AGAIN, CHICAGO'S Downtown had NO WHOLE Neighborhoods, that are merely single family homes? It does have new High-End Townhouses in River North yes. And as "Marothisu" commented. Yes a few areas there.
My MAIN POINT IN THIS THREAD is TIME CHICAGO ADDS ITS "Gold Coast" officially as DOWNTOWN. Yes it is ALL RESIDENTIAL. BUT TOTALLY WORTHY TO BE PART.
Ever since I posted in a couple PHILLY FORUM THREADS. Comments on ROW HOMES and NOT AGAINST THEM ALL.... BUT PREFERING CHICAGO'S housing choices and street grid. It is a SCARLET LETTER TO THEM. HOW DARE I.... Even though I LIVE AMONG ROWS, not in one. I AM TOTALLY A UNWELCOME OUTSIDER. BUT BRINGING UP MY PREVIOUS COMMENTS ON ROWS IN PHILLY.. HAS ME POST MUCH MORE
I'm turning 18 next summer and I'm trying to decide between Philly and Chicago. I'm from Southern California so I'd like to experience something totally different. So dear citydata users, can you help a girl out and talk about anything from food and culture to COL and crime. Compare everything you can think of. Thanks
• Urbaneness
• COL
• Vibe/Character
• Crime
• Public Transportation
• Walkability
• Nightlife
• Food
• Culture/Music
• Sports
• Anything else you can think of……..
For you, go with Philadelphia. On the bottom line I think both cities are like nearly evenly priced off the top of my head in nearly every measure and stuff. Most of your criteria would mainly be splitting hairs, as both places would be able to offer the grand majority of what you are asking of them.
I also think both have lots to offer, in regards to big city amenities.
Me personally, I would go with Chicago but that is for me given my background. I like Chicago much more, however for you though, go with Philadelphia. From California, I think you'll be able to launch to different destinations far more easily from Philadelphia, lots of nice places to see in the Bos-Wash Corridor and Philadelphia literally puts you in the middle of it all.
Center City Philly (Its Downtown proclaimed Boundaries) include STRICTLY SOME ROW HOME AND HISTORIC COLONIAL TOTALLY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS. But not a image one has of DOWNTOWN.
Chicago's comparable High-End neighborhoods include the Gold Coast, Lincoln Park and Lakeview. They all have Victorian housing mixed throughout. Not Colonial 1700s for sure. Late 1800s yes.
CHICAGO DOES NOT INCLUDE AREAS That DO NOT LOOK like they BELONG AS PART OF A DOWNTOWN.
River North DID develop to be include and was in Downtown with high-rises and former Industrial buildings into Loft living.
I think as I said before.... IT'S TIME....the GOLD COAST HERE TO LINCOLN PARK. BE INCLUDED AS DOWNTOWN. DESPITE BEING ALL RESIDENTIAL. It is CONTINUOUS FROM THE NEAR NORTH THAT IS DOWNTOWN and parts of the Near South Skyscraper living, that was built near Soldier Field too.
That's simply how Center City is defined. Spring Garden to South Street, River to River. I simply added University City as a part of Philadelphia's "Downtown" as well.
Society Hill - mostly historically certified buildings which cannot be demolished and were built long before the highrise was even invented. A lot of Philadelphia's top historical sites are within this neighborhood.
Callowhill - You wouldn't consider as a part of Downtown? It's definitely just an underdeveloped section of Downtown. Being industrial once upon a time does not automatically exclude it from the Downtown definition. A lot of the old industrial and manufacturing buildings have been or are being converted to residential and modern business and tech uses. A lot of new construction in the pipes for this section of the city as well. So, very underdeveloped part of Downtown? Yes, I agree. Not a part of Downtown at all? Disagree.
All in all, there are different sections of each Center City neighborhood, but how could one divide one half of the neighborhood and say "Yes this is downtown, but that part of the neighborhood isn't."?
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