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Old 02-25-2022, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
5,003 posts, read 5,979,299 times
Reputation: 4323

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarketStEl View Post
My hometown of Kansas City was the first city in the country to choose to make public transit free citywide.

I suspect that the City Council's decision to do this was influenced by the city's experience with the modern streetcar line along Main Street downtown. It's been free to ride from the start, and it's been wildly popular (its operating costs are paid for by a sales tax surcharge in a district that extends about a half-mile on either side of its route; the line and the taxing district are being extended southward to the Country Club Plaza and UMKC).
If the KC streetcar is "wildly popular" at 6,000 riders per day, what do we call paid public transit that gets over ten times that ridership for an actual service? I suspect that it's a novelty that is used primarily by office workers and visitors to events and street fairs. People that don't typically ride public transit sure do love streetcars even though they often provide a similar, but worse service than buses but with a smoother ride.

In the bigger picture, if a transit agency is providing a good service, then no one is not riding because it costs a few dollars. All of the other alternatives, unless they are within walking distance, are considerably more expensive. While it makes sense to supplement riders that can't afford to pay full fare, it doesn't make sense to supplement riders that can. I really do think that there are many financial and even psychological implications of a free service that lead to it not being an excellent or even good service. All it will ever be is "good enough" and maybe not even that.
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Old 02-25-2022, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
7,736 posts, read 5,514,664 times
Reputation: 5978
Quote:
Originally Posted by masssachoicetts View Post
My best experiences post covid:
-PATCO

Urban purists do like to talk crap on PATCO and PATH, but they are convenient, easy to use, and get the job done for NJ residents.
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Old 02-25-2022, 08:09 AM
 
Location: New York City
1,943 posts, read 1,488,531 times
Reputation: 3316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte485 View Post
DC metro hasn’t turned into a haven for crime, homeless and “degeneracy” anymore than pre-Covid. I mean not that I’ve noticed and I ride it frequently daily.

NYC Subway seemed like what I always remembered.

Haven’t been on the others since the pandemic.
New York City has absolutely gotten worse. The amount of homeless people camped out on trains and downright crazy people wandering around has gotten far worse in 2021-2022 than it was in 2019. I ride it every day and have seen it go downhill badly.
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Old 02-25-2022, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
5,003 posts, read 5,979,299 times
Reputation: 4323
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
Well, maybe not free, but subsidized where the city gives you money toward transit. That’s the proposal in DC. I think it’s important because it allows people to live without a car in urban cities where it’s possible.

If you don’t have to pay for transit, you have more money towards rent or mortgage in cities.
I agree with subsidizing for those that can't afford it. Unlike many other systems, DC Metro is pretty expensive and likely has a decent farebox recovery. But it's also largely suburban driven with enormous park and rides that serve many high-salaried people. Such high-salaried people are not deciding whether or not to take Metro over a $100/month credit. They'll pay way more than that if they drive. They are choosing metro because of the excellent and useful service.

Metro has already stated that the service cuts are going to be around for awhile and that they don't expect to return to previous service levels, maybe ever. That's because they are expecting a significant shift in the way that people in DC work, with many able to work from home much more often if not entirely. That's the same everywhere, but for whatever reason WMATA is treating it as if it's permanent.
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Old 02-25-2022, 09:06 AM
 
Location: D.C. / I-95
2,750 posts, read 2,419,379 times
Reputation: 3363
Quote:
Originally Posted by the resident09 View Post
It hasn't really regressed to that point IMO. Prior to the pandemic it had actually seen minimal ridership increases. There's the current issue going on with the 7000's series trains, and the wheels being inspected. But the slow down in service for inspecting those has been more precautionary than having some chronic issue. If that issue is cleared or considered resolved this spring, I see things slowly going back on the upswing. There's 7 new stations opening up this year. Now it's just the uphill battle of adding ridership bit by bit. Just like in most cities this will take time. Metro is still the biggest "clean" "modern" system in the country.
The issue with the 7000's series trains will most certainly not be resolved by the spring. Even Metro has been clear in saying it "may" be resolved by April. 60% of Metro's trains are not operating right now. Five stations on the Orange Line will be closed this summer. Unsustainable funding. Ridership continues to decline. Costly ridership from the suburbs and documented issues with fare evasion. General issues with service.
Metro has serious issues that need to be addressed immediately. Many people, like myself, are choosing to drive rather than take Metro.
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Old 02-25-2022, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
13,727 posts, read 15,751,203 times
Reputation: 4081
Quote:
Originally Posted by 908Boi View Post
The issue with the 7000's series trains will most certainly not be resolved by the spring. Even Metro has been clear in saying it "may" be resolved by April. 60% of Metro's trains are not operating right now. Five stations on the Orange Line will be closed this summer. Unsustainable funding. Ridership continues to decline. Costly ridership from the suburbs and documented issues with fare evasion. General issues with service.
Metro has serious issues that need to be addressed immediately. Many people, like myself, are choosing to drive rather than take Metro.
Steep ridership losses will force changes to Metro service after pandemic, transit leaders say

Asked how Metro could move forward without a rise in fare revenue, Wiedefeld said service might need to shift away from shuttling people in the suburbs and outlying neighborhoods to downtown Washington. Rail ridership has recently hovered at about 20 percent of pre-pandemic levels.

“The long-distance trip may not be the primary trip any longer, but there may be much shorter trips that are made,” Wiedefeld said.

He also suggested Metro could partner with private companies such as Uber or Lyft, with ride-hailing services handling some trips while transit focuses on other areas.



With the announcement from DC proposing $100 per month for all residents to ride metro:

DC Holds First Committee Hearing on $100 Monthly Metro Stipends

It's finally time to move metro service into a true urban subway system that focuses on DC proper only. DC is going to be extremely dense soon. Development at the level we have seen in Wards 1-6 for the last 20-years is now happening in Wards 7 and 8.

As DC proper approaches 1 million people over the coming decades, having NYC level service for the city only will help metro tremendously in ridership. If DC gives the entire city $100 per month, metro stations in DC proper will boom.
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Old 02-25-2022, 10:30 AM
 
Location: MD -> NoMa DC
409 posts, read 333,658 times
Reputation: 341
Chicago

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
Steep ridership losses will force changes to Metro service after pandemic, transit leaders say

Asked how Metro could move forward without a rise in fare revenue, Wiedefeld said service might need to shift away from shuttling people in the suburbs and outlying neighborhoods to downtown Washington. Rail ridership has recently hovered at about 20 percent of pre-pandemic levels.

“The long-distance trip may not be the primary trip any longer, but there may be much shorter trips that are made,” Wiedefeld said.

He also suggested Metro could partner with private companies such as Uber or Lyft, with ride-hailing services handling some trips while transit focuses on other areas.



With the announcement from DC proposing $100 per month for all residents to ride metro:

DC Holds First Committee Hearing on $100 Monthly Metro Stipends

It's finally time to move metro service into a true urban subway system that focuses on DC proper only. DC is going to be extremely dense soon. Development at the level we have seen in Wards 1-6 for the last 20-years is now happening in Wards 7 and 8.

As DC proper approaches 1 million people over the coming decades, having NYC level service for the city only will help metro tremendously in ridership. If DC gives the entire city $100 per month, metro stations in DC proper will boom.
The pessimist in me says this might not be feasible as the good majority of ridership, even in its current lowered state, still tilts towards suburbanites due to the poor frequency of commuter rail/bus from MD & VA.
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Old 02-25-2022, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Georgia
4,209 posts, read 4,744,007 times
Reputation: 3626
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Quiet_One View Post
But we pay for the vehicle that travels on roads, unless you're talking about walking. That's a very large expense burden on drivers (cost of car, maintenance, insurance, gas). You don't have to buy your own subway car to ride public transit.
Your vehicle is a private privilege. The road is what allows you to get where you’re going and it’s the one getting tax funding.
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Old 02-25-2022, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Washington D.C.
13,727 posts, read 15,751,203 times
Reputation: 4081
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDfinest View Post
Chicago



The pessimist in me says this might not be feasible as the good majority of ridership, even in its current lowered state, still tilts towards suburbanites due to the poor frequency of commuter rail/bus from MD & VA.
Well, I think the point is people will shift modes with high frequency in the city especially if it is free. Metro frequencies have always been designed to move people from the suburbs into the city. If metro starts operating 6–8-minute headways in the city only till late at night, people will start using it all the time. I can guarantee you that is the case if it's free to use.

Why would anyone take Uber when you can ride the metro for free with short headways just in the city? The big factor here is metro would be for DC residents mainly with high frequency all day and it would be free paid by the DC government for DC residents.
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Old 02-25-2022, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Baltimore
21,629 posts, read 12,754,191 times
Reputation: 11221
Atlanta 5.

Boston 3.

Baltimore 8/9.

Chicago 1.

Cleveland 8/9.

Philadelphia 4.

Washington DC 2.

SF 6.

LA 7.
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