Which has better public transit: Toronto vs. Chicago (south, transportation, rail)
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Is Toronto’s new light rail being constructed with room/potential to possibly be converted to heavy rail in the (distant) future, if necessary? I think I heard Seattle was doing something like that but maybe I heard wrong?
It doesn't need 2750 square miles, most of that square milage is not included in the urban area as it's undeveloped, and over 500,000 of that 6.7 is from the neighbouring city of Hamilton which is contiguous with the urbanized part of Halton Region (Burlington and Oakville), which are contiguous with Peel Region (Mississauga and Brampton) which is contiguous with the City of Toronto therefore forming a single urban area. You need to distinguish between what constitutes a metropolitan area in Canada (CMA) and an urban area. The Toronto urban area includes portions of three separate CMAs Toronto-Hamilton-Oshawa). Statcan counts the urban areas of each CMA separately as population centres, but the three are actually a single urban area containing 6.7 million people in less than 900 square miles.
How is that urban area for Toronto counted? How small of a geographical unit is being used for its consituent parts? I think a map of what that looks like would help as then an apples to apples comparison can be tried for Chicago as well. I’m not saying that the Toronto area wouldn’t come out denser, but it might make the comparison more clear.
How is that urban area for Toronto counted? How small of a geographical unit is being used for its consituent parts? I think a map of what that looks like would help as then an apples to apples comparison can be tried for Chicago as well. I’m not saying that the Toronto area wouldn’t come out denser, but it might make the comparison more clear.
Can we all get back on the topic? This is about holistic public transit between the 2 cities, so let's not turn this into another measuring contest of who's bigger, who has more density, who has bigger area and all that non sense.
Can we all get back on the topic? This is about holistic public transit between the 2 cities, so let's not turn this into another measuring contest of who's bigger, who has more density, who has bigger area and all that non sense.
Sort of depends on if you're trying to argue about coverage of an area as a factor--if it is, then the size of the area to be covered sort of makes sense.
If you went just by sheer absolute coverage, Chicago obviously gets that.
Is Toronto’s new light rail being constructed with room/potential to possibly be converted to heavy rail in the (distant) future, if necessary? I think I heard Seattle was doing something like that but maybe I heard wrong?
Toronto currently has 3 LRT projects under construction:
Hurontario LRT in the suburban city of Mississauga (15 km west of TO, completion in 2022): Metrolinx: Hurontario LRT
Eglinton has the potential to be a fully grade separate underground line, as its tunnels are built such that they can accommodate more heavy rail rapid transit. Eglinton also covers more densely populated areas so it makes sense to convert to heavy rail at some point, while Hurontario and Finch West both serve much more suburban neighborhoods that don't need subways for the foreseeable future.
Overall, the 2020-2024 period will see a big expansion of Toronto's urban rail transit network, with 3 lines coming online, along with the completion of the GO Regional Express Rail project upgrading 7 commuter rail lines to electrified rapid transit lines. For now, it's a giant construction zone
Eglinton has the potential to be a fully grade separate underground line, as its tunnels are built such that they can accommodate more heavy rail rapid transit. Eglinton also covers more densely populated areas so it makes sense to convert to heavy rail at some point, while Hurontario and Finch West both serve much more suburban neighborhoods that don't need subways for the foreseeable future.
Overall, the 2020-2024 period will see a big expansion of Toronto's urban rail transit network, with 3 lines coming online, along with the completion of the GO Regional Express Rail project upgrading 7 commuter rail lines to electrified rapid transit lines. For now, it's a giant construction zone
Yes, and with Doug Ford at Queens Park ....it’s all systems go
Not surprised Chicago is winning but in reality Toronto system is better,
higher ridership, and tons new infrastructure under construction.
I live in Chicago and visited Toronto last year for vacation. To start, Toronto, awesome! Absolutely love it and if Chicago was hit by a comet, Toronto would be my number one choice on this fair planet (assuming Canada let me in and Toronto was not also destroyed by said comet). We stayed in a neighborhood called "The Beach" which was one of many awesome neighborhoods in an awesome city.
My observations on Toronto Mass Transit vs. Chicago Mass Transit:
1. Chicago has more and better bike lanes and Divvy (Chicago's bike share program) has better coverage. Staying in "The Beach" we had to take a bus to get to a bike share station. This was odd coming from Chicago where a similar neighborhood (or even some close suburbs) would have bike share stations every few blocks. Divvy in Chicago to multiplies the value of the El and Metra rail systems as you can take a train most of the way then get on a Divvy for the last 10 minutes so I think its a valid component of mass transit.
Google tells me, Divvy has 580 stations and Bike Share Toronto has 270. Maybe this is partially offset by dockless bikes in Toronto.
2. If you are used to the CTA El trains, buses and streetcars are annoyingly slow and it seemed to me the El I had much better coverage than the TTC.
Google says CTA has 145 train stations and TTC 75.
3. I think many folks overlook commuter rail out to the burbs (and providing express service in the City) in thinking about mass transit.
Again, Google (an American company though so maybe its biased ) tells me Greater Toronto's Go Transit has 66 stations and Chicagoland's Metra system has 242 stations.
4. Chicago does lack streetcars. That said, from what I've seen, streetcars seem to marry the speed and reliability of buses with the inflexibility of trains. I think a few have said Toronto fixed that somehow. If so, points for Toronto. Note I have an odd personal animosity against street cars from my time living in Seattle and seeing how pointless, slow, and empty the one there is.
5. I'm sure there are areas where Toronto has better mass transit than Chicago. Also I'm probably biased if for nothing more I'm more used to Chicago transit so better able to utilize it. Maybe I'm also just missing pieces of Toronto's mass transit system (most people outside of Chicago have never heard of Metra which is an amazing regional asset). Again, Toronto is a great city and I'll be back!
Last edited by ebitdadada; 06-24-2018 at 09:33 AM..
Chicago has more and better bike lanes and Divvy (Chicago's bike share program) has better coverage. Staying in "The Beach" we had to take a bus to get to a bike share station. This was odd coming from Chicago where a similar neighborhood (or even some close suburbs) would have bike share stations every few blocks. Divvy in Chicago to multiplies the value of the El and Metra rail systems as you can take a train most of the way then get on a Divvy for the last 10 minutes so I think its a valid component of mass transit.
Google tells me, Divvy has 580 stations and Bike Share Toronto has 270. Maybe this is partially offset by dockless bikes in Toronto.
I'm glad that you enjoyed your visit to Toronto!
You'll be happy to know that this year Bike Share Toronto is undergoing a major expansion and is adding another 1000 bikes and 90 new stations with an additional 1,570 docks to the system. The Beach neighbourhood will be one of the areas added to the expansion zone.
Go Transit is also undergoing a major upgrade to its train service by increasing frequency and hours of operation and adding new infill stations to the system.
You'll be happy to know that this year Bike Share Toronto is undergoing a major expansion and is adding another 1000 bikes and 90 new stations with an additional 1,570 docks to the system. The Beach neighbourhood will be one of the areas added to the expansion zone.
Go Transit is also undergoing a major upgrade to its train service by increasing frequency and hours of operation and adding new infill stations to the system.
That's great to hear! I'll look forward to more bike share stations next time I visit. While Go Transit probably won't help me much as a tourist I"ll be happy to know it exists in the event a comet strikes Chicago and I find myself being a commuter in my second favorite city Toronto ! Again, Toronto is a great place and glad to hear about better bikes and rails.
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) tells me Greater Toronto's Go Transit has 66 stations and Chicagoland's Metra system has 242 stations.
