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Chicago's urban area has 9.1 million people in 2600 square miles. It's smaller than the Greater Toronto Area in terms of physical size. Hasn't this been done to death yet?
Urban area is not the same thing as metropolitan area. The Greater Toronto-Hamilton urban area has 6.7 million people in only 888 sq. miles. It's the densest urban area in the U.S. and Canada.
Urban area is not the same thing as metropolitan area. The Greater Toronto-Hamilton urban area has 6.7 million people in only 888 sq. miles. It's the densest urban area in the U.S. and Canada.
Urban area between Canada and the US are not standardized as far as I know. If you want, you can try grabbing stats for municipalities or census tracts and compile them to the most urban of a contiguous roughly 888 square mile area for Chicago (for that matter, you might consider doing it for several other metropolitan areas since you’re arguing its the densest in all of the US and Canada). For that, Chicago would likely hug the waterfront for the most part going north and possibly include Milwaukee (which Metra really should be serving, but for politics).
Urban area between Canada and the US are not standardized as far as I know. If you want, you can try grabbing stats for municipalities or census tracts and compile them to the most urban of a contiguous roughly 888 square mile area for Chicago (for that matter, you might consider doing it for several other metropolitan areas since you’re arguing its the densest in all of the US and Canada).
Both of those figures for the Chicago and Toronto urban areas where taken from Demographia's World Urban Areas 2018.
Both of those figures for the Chicago and Toronto urban areas where taken from Demographia's World Urban Areas 2018.
Good, but how do they decide the boundaries? Zip code? Census plot? Municipality? The devil’s in the details and the details provided are usually based on the country’s reporting methodology
Good, but how do they decide the boundaries? Zip code? Census plot? Municipality? The devil’s in the details and the details provided are usually based on the country’s reporting methodology
The United Nations list is based off continuous density down to a certain threshold.
Back to the topic at hand about, at least about size, coverage, etc..
Subway/Elevated, Number of Lines
Chicago: 8 lines
Toronto: 4 lines (2 more currently U/C)
Winner: Chicago
Subway/Elevated, Number of Stations
Chicago: 145 stations (at least 2 more that will open in the next few years, and a handful more with Red Line expansion if that happens)
Toronto: 75 stations (I've heard anywhere from 22 to 40 currently U/C)
Winner: Chicago
Subway/Elevated, Wheelchair Accessible Stations
Chicago: 105 stations (72.4% of all stations in the system)
Toronto: 42 stations (56% of all stations in the system)
Winner: Chicago
Subway/Elevated, Track mileage
Chicago: 224.1 miles
Toronto: 47.8 miles (with another 12 miles of track U/C)
Winner: Chicago
Subway/Elevated, Number of Cars
Chicago: 1492 rail cars
Toronto: 858 rail cars
Winner: Chicago
Subway/Elevated, Operating Hours
Chicago: 2 lines run 24/7 (Red and Blue Lines). Most other lines start service between 3:30am and end service anywhere from 1am and 2:30am depending on the line.
Toronto: Weekdays/Saturdays = 6am and 1:30am. Sundays = 8am to 1:30am
Winner: Chicago (2 24/7 lines for Chicago and most other lines are 20 to 22 hours per day whereas Toronto operates at most 19.5 hours per day)
Subway/Elevated, Airport Connectivity
Chicago: The Blue (O'Hare) and Orange (Midway) Lines directly connect to 2 airports.
Toronto: 0 (UP Express train goes to YYZ, though that's not TTC. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though..)
Winner: Chicago
Streetcars
Toronto has 11 street car routes with 52 miles of total length and 685 stops. Chicago doesn't have a street car system anymore, so obviously Toronto wins on this.
City Buses, Total routes
Toronto: 140+
Chicago: 129 routes
Winner: Toronto
City Buses, Number of stops
Chicago: 10,768 stops
Toronto: Can't find a definitive answer but it's around the same as Chicago from what I can find (10K-11K+)
Winner: Tied
City Buses, Accessibility
Chicago: All buses are wheelchair accessible
Toronto: All buses are wheelchair accessible
Winner: Tied. It's good both systems thought about this...
City Buses, total number of buses
Toronto: 2250 buses (counting Paratransit)
Chicago: 1864 buses
Winner: Toronto
City Buses, total route length
Toronto: 4308 miles
Chicago: 1536 miles
Winner: Toronto
Commuter Rail, total number of routes
Chicago (Metra): 11 lines
Toronto (GO Transit): 7 (8 if you count Union Pearson Express?)
Winner: Chicago
Commuter Rail, total number of stations
Chicago (Metra): 242 stations
Toronto (GO Transit): 66 stations
Winner: Chicago
Commuter Rail, total track length
Chicago (Metra): 487.7 miles
Toronto (GO Transit): 281 miles
Winner: Chicago
Commuter Rail, Airport Connectivity
Chicago: 1 (Metra goes to O'Hare. The nearest Metra stop for Midway is a mile or two away so that doesn't count)
Toronto: 1 (Union Pearson Express)
Winner: Tied
Suburban Bus, total number of routes
Chicago (PACE Bus): 209 routes
Toronto (GO Transit): 148 routes (as far as I can find)
Winner: Chicago
I think both PACE and GO Transit are all wheelchair accessible too.
All in all on this, I think the Chicago El/Subway definitely beats the TTC's subway, but if you factor in Toronto's street car system then it kind of evens up. The bus systems in the city are fairly even, maybe Toronto in front - both have good connectivity to the rail/street car systems too. So city-wise I think Toronto and Chicago are fairly even in the end. If you look at the overall region though, Metra's coverage blows GO Transit's rail system out of the water IMO. The bus systems (PACE for Chicago area and GO Transit for Toronto) are more even though Chicago still has more routes.
So in the end, I think for the city-wise it's pretty even. If you go out to the regional level then I think Chicago goes ahead of Toronto with the difference being the commuter rail (heavy rail) network.
Back to the topic at hand about, at least about size, coverage, etc..
Subway/Elevated, Number of Lines
Chicago: 8 lines
Toronto: 4 lines (2 more currently U/C)
Winner: Chicago
Subway/Elevated, Number of Stations
Chicago: 145 stations (at least 2 more that will open in the next few years, and a handful more with Red Line expansion if that happens)
Toronto: 75 stations (I've heard anywhere from 22 to 40 currently U/C)
Winner: Chicago
Subway/Elevated, Wheelchair Accessible Stations
Chicago: 105 stations (72.4% of all stations in the system)
Toronto: 42 stations (56% of all stations in the system)
Winner: Chicago
Subway/Elevated, Track mileage
Chicago: 224.1 miles
Toronto: 47.8 miles (with another 12 miles of track U/C)
Winner: Chicago
Subway/Elevated, Number of Cars
Chicago: 1492 rail cars
Toronto: 858 rail cars
Winner: Chicago
Subway/Elevated, Operating Hours
Chicago: 2 lines run 24/7 (Red and Blue Lines). Most other lines start service between 3:30am and end service anywhere from 1am and 2:30am depending on the line.
Toronto: Weekdays/Saturdays = 6am and 1:30am. Sundays = 8am to 1:30am
Winner: Chicago (2 24/7 lines for Chicago and most other lines are 20 to 22 hours per day whereas Toronto operates at most 19.5 hours per day)
Subway/Elevated, Airport Connectivity
Chicago: The Blue (O'Hare) and Orange (Midway) Lines directly connect to 2 airports.
Toronto: 0 (UP Express train goes to YYZ, though that's not TTC. Someone correct me if I'm wrong though..)
Winner: Chicago
Streetcars
Toronto has 11 street car routes with 52 miles of total length and 685 stops. Chicago doesn't have a street car system anymore, so obviously Toronto wins on this.
City Buses, Total routes
Toronto: 140+
Chicago: 129 routes
Winner: Toronto
City Buses, Number of stops
Chicago: 10,768 stops
Toronto: Can't find a definitive answer but it's around the same as Chicago from what I can find (10K-11K+)
Winner: Tied
City Buses, Accessibility
Chicago: All buses are wheelchair accessible
Toronto: All buses are wheelchair accessible
Winner: Tied. It's good both systems thought about this...
City Buses, total number of buses
Toronto: 2250 buses (counting Paratransit)
Chicago: 1864 buses
Winner: Toronto
City Buses, total route length
Toronto: 4308 miles
Chicago: 1536 miles
Winner: Toronto
Commuter Rail, total number of routes
Chicago (Metra): 11 lines
Toronto (GO Transit): 7 (8 if you count Union Pearson Express?)
Winner: Chicago
Commuter Rail, total number of stations
Chicago (Metra): 242 stations
Toronto (GO Transit): 66 stations
Winner: Chicago
Commuter Rail, total track length
Chicago (Metra): 487.7 miles
Toronto (GO Transit): 281 miles
Winner: Chicago
Commuter Rail, Airport Connectivity
Chicago: 1 (Metra goes to O'Hare. The nearest Metra stop for Midway is a mile or two away so that doesn't count)
Toronto: 1 (Union Pearson Express)
Winner: Tied
Suburban Bus, total number of routes
Chicago (PACE Bus): 209 routes
Toronto (GO Transit): 148 routes (as far as I can find)
Winner: Chicago
I think both PACE and GO Transit are all wheelchair accessible too.
All in all on this, I think the Chicago El/Subway definitely beats the TTC's subway, but if you factor in Toronto's street car system then it kind of evens up. The bus systems in the city are fairly even, maybe Toronto in front - both have good connectivity to the rail/street car systems too. So city-wise I think Toronto and Chicago are fairly even in the end. If you look at the overall region though, Metra's coverage blows GO Transit's rail system out of the water IMO. The bus systems (PACE for Chicago area and GO Transit for Toronto) are more even though Chicago still has more routes.
So in the end, I think for the city-wise it's pretty even. If you go out to the regional level then I think Chicago goes ahead of Toronto with the difference being the commuter rail (heavy rail) network.
Again, these stats, while nice, are meaningless. You're comparing apples to oranges. Does New York's subway beat Chicago coverage wise? Of course. Should it, given its relative size, population and (ridiculous) density over Chicago? Absolutely. Does the Chicago L beat Cleveland's Rapid? Does Cleveland's Rapid beat Buffalo's Metro Rail? Does Metro Rail beat Youngstown or Peoria or Duluth or Walla-Walla, or...?
... and your stats didn't include how smaller Toronto and its less-than-half-the-size TTC heavy rail subway (as you would say) BLOWS AWAY Chicago L's ridership ... despite all that superior size and coverage you boast about. (and btw, you don't measure a system by track size, you do so by route mileage, and Chicago's un-duplicated route size is closer to 106 miles vs. Toronto's 46, or so. And despite your comment that Metra supposedly "blows away" GO Transit commuter rail, you don't comment on Metra's disjointed, non-connecting, non-through (the Loop) service or do you address, despite your implication, that GO doesn't not comprehensively serve smaller metro Toronto... because it most certainly does.
Again, these stats, while nice, are meaningless. You're comparing apples to oranges. Does New York's subway beat Chicago coverage wise? Of course. Should it, given its relative size, population and (ridiculous) density over Chicago? Absolutely. Does the Chicago L beat Cleveland's Rapid? Does Cleveland's Rapid beat Buffalo's Metro Rail? Does Metro Rail beat Youngstown or Peoria or Duluth or Walla-Walla, or...?
... and your stats didn't include how smaller Toronto and its less-than-half-the-size TTC heavy rail subway BLOWS AWAY Chicago L's ridership ... despite all that superior size and coverage you boast about. (and btw, you don't measure a system by track size, you do so by route mileage, and Chicago's un-duplicated route size is closer to 106 miles vs. Toronto's 46, or so.
How are these stats by themselves meaningless? An interpretation of them might provide better understanding, but I can't see how these by themselves be meaningless.
Again, these stats, while nice, are meaningless. You're comparing apples to oranges. Does New York's subway beat Chicago coverage wise? Of course. Should it, given its relative size, population and (ridiculous) density over Chicago? Absolutely. Does the Chicago L beat Cleveland's Rapid? Does Cleveland's Rapid beat Buffalo's Metro Rail? Does Metro Rail beat Youngstown or Peoria or Duluth or Walla-Walla, or...?
... and your stats didn't include how smaller Toronto and its less-than-half-the-size TTC heavy rail subway BLOWS AWAY Chicago L's ridership ... despite all that superior size and coverage you boast about. (and btw, you don't measure a system by track size, you do so by route mileage, and Chicago's un-duplicated route size is closer to 106 miles vs. Toronto's 46, or so.
But does the ridership have more to do with land use policy and development patterns than the actual quality of the service/systems? That’s not a rhetorical question - I’m honestly curious.
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