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Again, these stats, while nice, are meaningless. You're comparing apples to oranges. Does New York's subway beat Chicago coverage wise? Of course. Should it, given its relative size, population and (ridiculous) density over Chicago? Absolutely. Does the Chicago L beat Cleveland's Rapid? Does Cleveland's Rapid beat Buffalo's Metro Rail? Does Metro Rail beat Youngstown or Peoria or Duluth or Walla-Walla, or...?
... and your stats didn't include how smaller Toronto and its less-than-half-the-size TTC heavy rail subway (as you would say) BLOWS AWAY Chicago L's ridership ... despite all that superior size and coverage you boast about. (and btw, you don't measure a system by track size, you do so by route mileage, and Chicago's un-duplicated route size is closer to 106 miles vs. Toronto's 46, or so. And despite your comment that Metra supposedly "blows away" GO Transit commuter rail, you don't comment on Metra's disjointed, non-connecting, non-through (the Loop) service or do you address, despite your implication, that GO doesn't not comprehensively serve smaller metro Toronto... because it most certainly does.
If you are going to ask who has the better public transit, then you look at coverage, on time percentage, operating hours, cleanliness, wheelchair accessibility, etc. This is how these things are measured. Ridership is basically a useless statistic in this, other than how packed a train might be (and taking overall ridership numbers to determine this is a terrible way to do it). Chicago and Toronto, the cities, in terms of physical area are very similar. You're right that I should have used Chicago's track length which is closer to 106 miles. Still double that of Toronto's. The Chicago El's operating hours are simply better than the TTC, but with the TTC's light rail, that makes it better as they run 24/7. The bus systems in terms of coverage for both cities are very good, though I didn't talk about the operating hours for the bus system (for example a lot of buses in Chicago end around midnight, but there's a bunch of bus routes that run 24/7 -- not 100% sure about how Toronto does it).
Sorry, but I think that Metra does blow GO Transit out of the way if just comparing rail. Is it disjointed to the CTA? A little bit - no denying that, but any station downtown is just a block or two away from city trains, and each station has numerous bus lines that go to it (and one has a half assed BRT). The Metra is a huge system that is more comparable to the LIRR in the NYC area (same number of lines, though more stops, but LIRR covers more ground).
In the end, these two places in terms of coverage, options, connectivity, etc are fairly even in my opinion and a lot more even than most people realize. Taking all of these things into account, I don't think one of these cities blows the other away. In my opinion they're pretty evenly matched up with public transit. And let's just say that things could be a lot worse in terms of public transit for either of these cities. Outside of NYC and Mexico City within North America, in my opinion for total systems Toronto and Chicago are definitely the next best.
I didn't talk about the operating hours for the bus system (for example a lot of buses in Chicago end around midnight, but there's a bunch of bus routes that run 24/7 -- not 100% sure about how Toronto does it).
The Blue Night Network is the overnight public transit service operated by the Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) in Toronto, Ontario, Canada. The network consists of a basic grid of 27 bus and 4 streetcar routes, distributed so that almost all of the city is within 2 km of at least one route. It is the largest and most frequent night network in North America.
So what is your concern? I mean if you are actually afraid of an area like Lincoln Park, Lakeview, Lincoln Square, Roscoe Village, etc then it tells me and everyone else familiar with Chicago everything they need to know about you.
It tells you what? That I prefer friendly, safe cities like Toronto over Chicago?
It tells you what? That I prefer friendly, safe cities like Toronto over Chicago?
Large swaths of Chicago are perfectly safe and friendly for both singles and families, and the parts that objectively aren’t you, in all likelihood, won’t set foot in.
Well, I haven't been taking the train to Englewood or Riverdale or something, my experience comes from Chicago's 'regular' neighborhoods outside of downtown. My concern wasn't just the trains themselves but also the stops and the areas surrounding those.
You are trying to interject your --- love of American ghettos and industrial abandoned areas. You try this in Canadian forums and they don't take the bait.
Before you interject you favorite high-crime ghetto neighborhoods you love to view street-views of as your fetish. I remember your comment .... " You would only visit the US again to see Detroit for its blight.... But you are entitled to your opinion.
Then say they are regular areas outside of downtown here and last two hoods FAR from downtown as they are highest in crime.
You should realize how many miles or kilometers these hoods really are from downtown Chicago. Riverdale begins by 130th street. That is the waaaay south from downtown where the numbering system begins. Englewood begins about 63rd street. Still many many miles south of the core. No one recommends these areas for visitors and people live their whole lives never seeing them. I never was in my 6-years there. I knew mainly the North side of the city and a few areas south I had relatives.
Why as a European in Germany (you use to list it as your location and removed it why?) you love US poor areas and industrial ruins if left ..... I surely do not know why the luv. You tried your luck in the US decades ago and failed..... and returned home. You use to talk on Mother Cabrini housing project as if still existing and posted a YouTube video from the 90s as if today a while back. I caught that one...
As usual you try to interject crime into threads and not about that. No one calls the CTA transit unsafe. The L doesn't even go to Riverdale .....
Quote:
Originally Posted by drro
It tells you what? That I prefer friendly, safe cities like Toronto over Chicago?
Honestly ... enough said. to beg for a response here.
Sorry, but I think that Metra does blow GO Transit out of the way if just comparing rail. Is it disjointed to the CTA? A little bit - no denying that, but any station downtown is just a block or two away from city trains, and each station has numerous bus lines that go to it (and one has a half assed BRT). The Metra is a huge system that is more comparable to the LIRR in the NYC area (same number of lines, though more stops, but LIRR covers more ground).
What is Metra's service frequency outside of peak periods? GO is an interesting story, because it is currently in the midst of a massive government-funded expansion and rebranding which seeks to:
1. Electrify all 7 lines in the next 5 years
2. $13.5 billion in allocated funding
3. 500 km of newly built dedicated tracks for GO trains before 2022 (they already built half of that since 2014)
4. 50 new, in-fill stations, mostly concentrated in Toronto and high density areas.
5. New electric multiple unit trains to be built by Bombardier and Swiss Stadler
6. And most importantly, 15 min or better frequencies on all 7 lines, all day, 7 days a week (essentially converting the who system into regional rapid transit modeled after Germany's S-Bahn system and Paris' RER); 4 lines today already offer all-day, 7-day service with trains every 30 minutes or better, even in off-peak hours.
7. And more interestingly, this is supported by all political parties at the provincial and federal level. The current trend in Canada is that no political party can afford to be "anti-transit". Even the newly elected Progressive Conservatives have fully committed $14 billion to the above project because most of their suburban voters demand constant transit improvements.
What is Metra's service frequency outside of peak periods? GO is an interesting story, because it is currently in the midst of a massive government-funded expansion and rebranding which seeks to:
1. Electrify all 7 lines in the next 5 years
2. $13.5 billion in allocated funding
3. 500 km of newly built dedicated tracks for GO trains before 2022 (they already built half of that since 2014)
4. 50 new, in-fill stations, mostly concentrated in Toronto and high density areas.
5. New electric multiple unit trains to be built by Bombardier and Swiss Stadler
6. And most importantly, 15 min or better frequencies on all 7 lines, all day, 7 days a week (essentially converting the who system into regional rapid transit modeled after Germany's S-Bahn system and Paris' RER); 4 lines today already offer all-day, 7-day service with trains every 30 minutes or better, even in off-peak hours.
7. And more interestingly, this is supported by all political parties at the provincial and federal level. The current trend in Canada is that no political party can afford to be "anti-transit". Even the newly elected Progressive Conservatives have fully committed $14 billion to the above project because most of their suburban voters demand constant transit improvements.
Yea, nothing like that for Metra right now. There are third-party proposals that ask for something similar like Crossrail Chicago, but that's not actually policy let alone funded. The US has several cities that have a large commuter rail network and existing, underutilized rail right of ways that can be leveraged as a RER/S-Bahn type system with relatively little work, but there's almost no push for it with the last one like that almost going through was for Baltimore (though that bill never passed). Boston's North South Rail Link among other proposed projects are similar--pretty good ideas that can quickly augment mass transit in the area but fairly little political or popular support.
Yea, nothing like that for Metra right now. There are third-party proposals that ask for something similar like Crossrail Chicago, but that's not actually policy let alone funded. The US has several cities that have a large commuter rail network and existing, underutilized rail right of ways that can be leveraged as a RER/S-Bahn type system with relatively little work, but there's almost no push for it with the last one like that almost going through was for Baltimore (though that bill never passed). Boston's North South Rail Link among other proposed projects are similar--pretty good ideas that can quickly augment mass transit in the area but fairly little political or popular support.
Good points... The closest city in the US I've seen develop commuter rail to S-Bahn/RER potential is Philadelphia (SEPTA) with its 1983-built Center City tunnel connecting the huge Penn Central and Reading electrified systems... But Philly has since dropped the ball. Although they added the important airport branch in (like) 1986, SEPTA has done very little to improve service to a rapid-transit like. In fact, given the growth of push-pull locomotives for longer lines, there's evidence Philly is going the other way. For one thing, the long-talked about signal improvements for throat system from 30th Street Station through Center City and north to Wayne Junction, Jenkintown and Glenside hasn't happened nor is it even in planning. Worst yet, SEPTA should have raised platforms for level walk-in entry at every station (SEPTA has slowly raised a few platforms on some lines, but for the most part, passengers must endure the sometimes arduous climb up into/down out of SEPTA's tall-sitting trains. Only a very small fraction of the system shares tracks with freight trains anymore, so there's no excuse (and even the sections that do can use the switch-out/double rail system employed on Chicago's South Shore Line at some high-platform stations).
To further muddle the situation, a few years back SEPTA decided to dump its long-used, color-coded R-system of paring through lines and now only identifies lines based on their destinations, with schedules now only showing service from Center City to these destination points (for a while they were showing origin/completion points on schedules to help passengers on through trips ... no more). So SEPTA muddles on with its low platform, (roughly) hourly base schedule on heavy railroad-type trains with ticket-punching conductors. ... And this is American commuter rail at its best!? Oy!
The future expansions very well .... will probably go to Toronto and more Provide and Federal government support. Some US cities got some matching funds fort upgrades and expansions just before Obama was out of office. New ones unlikely ... though Trump wants infrastructure improvements.
But seems a CLEAR CASE for a Chicago win at this time yet. But most se Toronto's future openings count totally already.
The total disregard for Marothisu's informative post and embracing Toronto's fully. Again different Nations and priorities that is far less National in the US. Toronto surely deserves credit for what it is getting and building.
So does Chicago that has to continue upgrades of a system 100+ years old and the new Elon Musk high speed shuttle tunnel approved for Chicago with a 3-year construction timeline once started.
The Chicago L is part of its character also. That has no plans to be replaced. With the Billions spent for tie underground Big-tunnel project still some years till completion..... as to spare Lake Michigan excess runoffs if storms and areas basements can be prone to some..... it could have new subways today.... literally.
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I remember your comment .... " You would only visit the US again to see Detroit for its blight.... 
But you are entitled to your opinion. 
No one recommends these areas for visitors and people live their whole lives never seeing them. I never was in my 6-years there. I knew mainly the North side of the city and a few areas south I had relatives.
why?) you love US poor areas and industrial ruins if left ..... I surely do not know why the luv. You tried your luck in the US decades ago and failed..... and returned home. You use to talk on Mother Cabrini housing project as if still existing and posted a YouTube video from the 90s as if today a while back. I caught that one... 
