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I definitely don't have a strong ear for the Delaware Valley. It's obvious to me though, to hear Tidewater in the Black Baltimore accent, its manifested in both white and black Baltimore accents...
You're gonna hear more drawls from Petersburg, which is Central Virginia, because it sits not far from essentially the confluence of Central and Southside Virginia. For a chunk of Southsiders, Petersburg is the closest "large" city until you get to Danville or Lynchburg, and that's reflected in the historical gravity of certain Southside areas (basically the 85/95 South corridor cities and counties) towards Petersburg. A funny distinction in the region is if you go immediately East to Hopewell and Prince George there is a strong shift towards more contemporary Tidewater, whereas Petersburg has that Southside underlayer. Really interesting thing...
Richmond's native accent (and Central Virginia in general) is off the Tidewater tree as well. I always thought that, then when I lived in The Beach it only affirmed it for me....but of course, all three of Rich/DC/Bmore have unique aspects to them, my only point was they are all of the same dialect tree and for me it's pretty easily identifiable when around people from all three areas...
What about white Baltimore people? How are they more Southern than white Chicagoans?
Many have roots in WV, especially southern WV, which is essentially a southern area more similar to eastern KY and western VA than an northern state. Chicago is very Midwestern so I'm not sure why you think it's southern.
Baltimore-DC-Richmond, is a cluster. I've long acknowledged that the entire region is more like itself in some ways than it is other parts of the country. However EACH have their own separate nuances to them. Baltimore to me, at least in the "black accent" is a mix of Tidewater, with what I hear from Blacks from the Delaware Valley. One has to have a trained ear to even understand that though.
The funny thing about the three cities are the degrees or levels of Tidewaterness one can hear. According to Aschmann's dialect site, Maryland, DC, and VA were heavy with the Tidewater accent...that's backed up with the older speakers. I read somewhere that DC used to be like how Richmond was before the Fed Gov't expanded and left it in the dust. The accents of John Warner (DC) and Douglas Wilder (RVA) have Tidewater features that are currently lost or weakening outside of Hampton Roads. Baltimore and DC have always had the "big city" status longer than Richmond but I do think they are part of the same geographic area/region even though Richmond is sleepier than the other two (RVA is destined to be a DC outpost or satellite city like place).
The funny thing about the three cities are the degrees or levels of Tidewaterness one can hear. According to Aschmann's dialect site, Maryland, DC, and VA were heavy with the Tidewater accent...that's backed up with the older speakers. I read somewhere that DC used to be like how Richmond was before the Fed Gov't expanded and left it in the dust. Baltimore and DC have always had the "big city" status longer than Richmond but I do think they are part of the same geographic area/region even though Richmond is sleepier than the other two (RVA is destined to be a DC outpost or satellite city like place).
This is a fact and it's so obvious, it's amazing that people are confused or shocked when someone mentions it (not anyone in this thread as of yet). But over the years on here this has gotten strong, erroneous opinions to the contrary...
It's always amusing when people assert that Richmond is in some whole entire other region than the other two despite centuries of shared history and other evidence on the table. I think it's easier for people to see if you grew up or spent time between all three rather than just one or worse, make your position based on having never spent any real time amongst locals in either of the three...
Richmond is older than DC so DC is what Rich would look like with everything that the notoriety and amenities of being the nation's capital bring. All three are alike fundamentally and the entire Delmarva area, at its root, is from the same dialect tree/family, of which Tidewater is the oldest, earliest developed that history expanded to these other areas over time and took on unique characteristics in different parts of the region...
I agree Murk. They all are distinct on a whole like Theresident09 and Kode are bringing out but there's some Tidewater-Chesapeake glue there (reiteration for those who think Richmond is Mobile and MD is Northern New Jersey).
I would say Chicago is more Southern influenced. Why? Baltimore, being in the gray area region already had characteristics over Chicago but the migration brought on a cultural feature that would be more noticeable in Chicago's region. Yes, many Chicago "Blacks" do sound like recent Mississippi transplants. A person would notice more if the Maybach went sporty over an Audi.
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,552,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock
This is a fact and it's so obvious, it's amazing that people are confused or shocked when someone mentions it (not anyone in this thread as of yet). But over the years on here this has gotten strong, erroneous opinions to the contrary...
It's always amusing when people assert that Richmond is in some whole entire other region than the other two despite centuries of shared history and other evidence on the table. I think it's easier for people to see if you grew up or spent time between all three rather than just one or worse, make your position based on having never spent any real time amongst locals in either of the three...
Richmond is older than DC so DC is what Rich would look like with everything that the notoriety and amenities of being the nation's capital bring. All three are alike fundamentally and the entire Delmarva area, at its root, is from the same dialect tree/family, of which Tidewater is the oldest, earliest developed that history expanded to these other areas over time and took on unique characteristics in different parts of the region...
There were people living in the present day National Capital region prior to DC becoming a planned city however. Those people already had local dialect and accents. DC was just carved out of VA/MD when made official. But to your point in it's entirety the natives in the region spanning up to 150 miles north-south does display some level of Tidewater accent. Baltimore has the least of this though, and there is a different nuance in each of the three major cities.
I'll also say this, the "Tidewater" accent isn't deeply Southern to me, it's just kind of middle ground. I don't think the speech of most people in this part of the country is very Southern sounding (white or black), and I've been to every state in the Census designated South except Texas. It's a very generic sounding accent to me, and this is without even adding in all the Northern transplants here that further dilute any "southernness" here.
Last edited by the resident09; 06-20-2020 at 04:11 PM..
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
8,128 posts, read 7,552,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chevalier de Saint-George
I agree Murk. They all are distinct on a whole like Theresident09 and Kode are bringing out but there's some Tidewater-Chesapeake glue there (reiteration for those who think Richmond is Mobile and MD is Northern New Jersey).
I would say Chicago is more Southern influenced. Why? Baltimore, being in the gray area region already had characteristics over Chicago but the migration brought on a cultural feature that would be more noticeable in Chicago's region. Yes, many Chicago "Blacks" do sound like recent Mississippi transplants. A person would notice more if the Maybach went sporty over an Audi.
At least with the Black population, some Chicagoans accent sounds more Southern than Baltimore, DC, and Richmond.
I think this thread is about more than that though. Overall Chicago doesn't have much Southern flavor, it is decidedly Midwestern.
At least with the Black population, some Chicagoans accent sounds more Southern than Baltimore, DC, and Richmond.
I think this thread is about more than that though. Overall Chicago doesn't have much Southern flavor, it is decidedly Midwestern.
But what southern flavor does Baltimore have?
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