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Philadelphia along with other Northeastern metros are very woodsy and lush and give a bucolic impression (one of the many things I love), when in reality this stretch of highway is surround by some of the most densely populated burbs in the Northeast.
That is 100% a very Northeastern metro photo, I lived out there for almost 5 years. The heavy traffic, tight lanes, trees with no leaves, and the grey sky it is spot on! lol
There I certainly aspects of it I like but I prefer visiting to living there.
This is one of the quintessential Phoenix highway locations on the 51 as it splits the middle of the Phoenix Mountain Preserve dropping South to Central Phoenix, North of there is an area called Moon valley. Always a drive I enjoyed that reminds me I'm lucky to have this preserved open space right in the middle of the city.
This is one of the quintessential Phoenix highway locations on the 51 as it splits the middle of the Phoenix Mountain Preserve dropping South to Central Phoenix, North of there is an area called Moon valley. Always a drive I enjoyed that reminds me I'm lucky to have this preserved open space right in the middle of the city.
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A unique landscape for sure. I'm all for open spaces, although I've never been fond of massive highways.
I'm quite familiar with Wissahickon, I biked through part of it one of my visits to the area many years ago. It's quite nice but it's not unique at all for the Northeast. You could drop me in a similar park near Boston, New York, DC or anywhere else in the region and would not notice the difference.
The Phoenix MSA extends as many miles out as Philadelphia's CSA. That is my point.
Maricopa County is almost as large as the state of CT in land area.
If the City of Philadelphia and City of Phoenix had the same overlay.
Philadelphia City population would be approx: 2.9 Million
Phoenix City population would remain at 1.58 Million.
The size is not relevant, the problem "Maricopa county as big as...." is the fact that most of Maricopa county is completely empty and has no baring on the MSA of Phoenix. You're just factoring in thousands of empty miles to be honest. Here's some facts on it. Something like 30% of it is owned by people or corporations. The BLM and State Forest Land is never getting developed.
Maricopa County measures 9,222 square miles, 98 square miles of which is water. Twenty-nine percent of this area is owned individually or by corporation, and 28 percent is owned by the U.S. Bureau ofLand Management. The U.S. Forest Service and the State of Arizona each control 11 percent of the county;an additional 16 percent is owned by other public entities. Almost 5 percent is Indian reservation land.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,590,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penna76
I think LA is the largest example to look as a case study at the flaw in your theory above.
Phoenix really did not start to grow to over the 1 Million Mark until around 2000.
Prior to that, and most other sunbelt cities, growth was happening, but between the Mid 90s and 2020 is where you have seen the most substantial growth in nearly every sunbelt city.
Most of it has occurred within the past twenty years or so.
LA saw the earliest cycle of this explosive growth with a uniformity of single family homes and sprawling growth starting in the 60s/70s, and it was at an alarming growth rate. Some 50+ years before Phoenix saw any really big crazy growth.
Now LA is going through some major growing pains as a result. A lack of density has meant housing costs have skyrocketed. Highway infrastructure is crumbling, and outside of the very exclusive areas of LA, most of it looks very dated and grimey/gritty because it was uniformly constructed in the same era and the buildings all uniformly in the metro look quite old and dated and in disrepair.
Whereas the big difference with the built environments of the legacy cities, is its "urban areas" are much more diversified in built environment, built timelines, and overall ability to address infrastructure challenges.
Another item you are not considering is built environment. Many of the older urban areas were built around transit (pre auto) and therefore have an abundance of walkable communities, that all are centered around transit use.
This is seen as an attractive urban amenity that most people desire. It builds community, health and wellness, safety, QOL, place identity etc.
Suburban strip malls have much to be left desired in the urban form. Also the City of Phoenix is not even half as dense and barely a quarter as dense as the City of Philadelphia. Therefore the center of place and identity really gets lost.
I honestly find Scottsdale to be the most vibrant community in Phoenix, and that is not considered to even be in the city. Therefore the core of the city really does not exist, and its amenities really get lost. IMO.
That's because over 35% of Phoenix is uninhabited due to mountains and desert preserves that are inside the city limits. The density of the inhabited parts of the city is around 5,800ppsm, which is around half the density of Philadelphia
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,590,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Easy
Phoenix is built on a grid with major streets one-half mile apart sometimes 1-2 miles apart. Great for driving, but not so great if you need to cross the street on foot.
As someone who drives a truck, I will say your city is not truck friendly at all. I'm working in your neck of the woods now, and had to deliver cement powder to the job site at the LaBrea tar pits yesterday (have to go back today), and getting from the 10 over there and back is a PITA. Thank God I'm getting paid bank at this job, makes it worth it
That is 100% a very Northeastern metro photo, I lived out there for almost 5 years. The heavy traffic, tight lanes, trees with no leaves, and the grey sky it is spot on! lol
There I certainly aspects of it I like but I prefer visiting to living there.
This is one of the quintessential Phoenix highway locations on the 51 as it splits the middle of the Phoenix Mountain Preserve dropping South to Central Phoenix, North of there is an area called Moon valley. Always a drive I enjoyed that reminds me I'm lucky to have this preserved open space right in the middle of the city.
No offense, but that pic looks like almost every highway I drove on in the Phoenix area when I visited last January. I really enjoyed Arizona, started off in this really cool, chic boutigue hotel in Phoenix called the Found:Re. I guess you would say right outside of downtown but could still walk to the sports complex and all those areas around there. Coming from NYC area, the southwestern architecture and styles were different and cool to see. We had one of those light rail stations right outside our hotel but never used it. The temperature was perfect but even in January I could feel that desert sun beating down ever so slightly during the day. Could only imagine what it's like from June-August. Yikes.
Then went up to Sedona for a few days with a day trip to the Grand Canyon while we were there. Loved Sedona, really good vibes and energy there. Loved the Red Rocks everywhere. Very picturesque and relaxing. Overall I really liked Arizona.
No offense, but that pic looks like almost every highway I drove on in the Phoenix area when I visited last January. I really enjoyed Arizona, started off in this really cool, chic boutigue hotel in Phoenix called the Found:Re. I guess you would say right outside of downtown but could still walk to the sports complex and all those areas around there. Coming from NYC area, the southwestern architecture and styles were different and cool to see. We had one of those light rail stations right outside our hotel but never used it. The temperature was perfect but even in January I could feel that desert sun beating down ever so slightly during the day. Could only imagine what it's like from June-August. Yikes.
Then went up to Sedona for a few days with a day trip to the Grand Canyon while we were there. Loved Sedona, really good vibes and energy there. Loved the Red Rocks everywhere. Very picturesque and relaxing. Overall I really liked Arizona.
No offense taken at all, I don't think the photo does the best job of portraying that location but it's rather unique in that you're in the middle of Phoenix but on that portion of the 51 freeway actually surrounded by mountains that are taller then they appear in the google maps photo. On the east side of that view is Piestawa Peak which tops out at 2,610' versus the Phoenix valley sitting around 1,100' so it's a fairly high profile view.
I always get a chuckle out of the "strong desert sun" mentions from out-of-towners. It's true that the sun intensity would be stronger here than the Northeast due to our latitude being 33.44 degrees north but the desert, which is strictly a function of annual rainfall, has nothing to do with that. The fact that we do have high pressure systems in place frequently and it's not cloudy that much is probably the real reasons. Phoenix is actually further North then Atlanta by way of example.
As far as the summer goes, yep it's hot, the desert is a unique and to some of us very beautiful place though. I wouldn't trade summer thunderstorm season for anything. It's my second favorite time of year despite the increase in humidity, just because I love thunderstorms, if we could have those without the higher humidity though I'd be content.
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