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I'm a white, 17 year old Philadelphian, and have heard, and hear, the n-word spoken (in most cases very openly and somewhat off hand, and sometimes within earshot or directly aimed at african-americans) by white people of varying ages pretty frequently.
Stories of racially motivated incidents such as violence and vandalism are not all that uncommon up here either; I've seen news reports covering fights/jumpings of blacks by whites (not really so much the other way around) and heard stories of black people being run out of certain neighborhoods and having their homes burned down.
I wouldn't be surprised that it happens in Philly. It has happened in Boston too.
It's all over the place. The North and the South just have different narratives.
There are reports of blacks getting killed in the back woods. There are also reports of whites getting beat up and murdered in certain places too.
I'm a white, 17 year old Philadelphian, and have heard, and hear, the n-word spoken (in most cases very openly and somewhat off hand, and sometimes within earshot or directly aimed at african-americans) by white people of varying ages pretty frequently.
Stories of racially motivated incidents such as violence and vandalism are not all that uncommon up here either; I've seen news reports covering fights/jumpings of blacks by whites (not really so much the other way around) and heard stories of black people being run out of certain neighborhoods and having their homes burned down.
Last time I was in Philly whenever I heard somebody say the N-word out in public it always came from the mouth of Black themselves. In the 21st century it's very rare to hear a White person say the N-word out in the open public, most say it behind closed doors in the safety of their own homes. Most Black people under the age of 50 have never had a White person come up to them and call them the N-word to their face. And I am pretty sure that in Philadelphia especially today, the rate of Black on White crime is a hell of alot more common than White on Black crime. Also I have heard some horrific stories of Whites who attend Philadelphia's mostly Black public schools being violently jumped by Blacks and because of this many White parents in Philly prefer to send their kids either to private school or to one of the better public schools in the suburbs.
Last edited by Jeff Jarrett; 11-21-2008 at 04:14 AM..
Last time I was in Philly whenever I heard somebody say the N-word out in public it always came from the mouth of Black themselves. In the 21st century it's very rare to hear a White person say the N-word out in the open public, most say it behind closed doors in the safety of their own homes. Most Black people under the age of 50 have never had a White person come up to them and call them the N-word to their face. And I am pretty sure that in Philadelphia especially today, the rate of Black on White crime is a hell of alot more common than White on Black crime. Also I have heard some horrific stories of Whites who attend Philadelphia's mostly Black public schools being violently jumped by Blacks and because of this many White parents in Philly prefer to send their kids either to private school or to one of the better public schools in the suburbs.
Well I am not one of those black persons you are speaking of. I have been called the "N" word by a few whites persons to my face(not to say I haven't been called that by a few blacks because that has happened as well).
If what you are saying about the public schools in Philadelphia are true, then the media must not be covering this stuff. I say this: It has happened on BOTH ends. I have seen this for myself.
This is what I was told. A family member told me that historically, this is what Dr. King Jr. said.
Dr. King said that about race relations: in the North a black man could make money, have a nice home, have things, but whites didn't want blacks living next door. In the South, a blacks could live side by side as long as they didn't try to have more money or to have nicer things and in short "know their place". Historically, this is what I have heard.
I grew up in a predominantly black swath of the rural south, and I am in my 20's, like you. From what I have gathered, this sentiment is true of the World War II generation and older.
In that day especially, middle/upper class rural white families had legal, social, and economic priviledge. They often used this status to "provide for" a nearby black family down the road, or to exchange goods/services in a way that they felt was charitable. (typically it was a house and hunting/fishing land, in exchange for a lifetime of cheap manual labor) I would imagine that in many cases, they would feel proud of their Christian selves for doing so. I think over time this led to the sentiment that blacks shouldn't have nicer things than whites, since it would've been an affront to the family that fancied itself as a "generous provider." (They had an astonishing variety of ways to rationalize segregation & Jim Crow, and in their narrow perspective they thought they were doing the "right thing")
Then of course, you'd have the masses of poor white dirt-farmers who were at the bottom rung of the white ladder, but could still exert enough political pressure to make sure they were legally "above" blacks, since blacks were a threat to this class.
How has all this evolved, though the Civil Rights movement and into today's society? I don't really know. Society has changed, expectations and roles have shifted, generations have come and gone. I guess today's version would be the whites who get angry when they see Cadillac Escalades and Lexuses with $20,000 worth of tires and rims parked in the housing projects.
I grew up in a predominantly black swath of the rural south, and I am in my 20's, like you. From what I have gathered, this sentiment is true of the World War II generation and older.
In that day especially, middle/upper class rural white families had legal, social, and economic priviledge. They often used this status to "provide for" a nearby black family down the road, or to exchange goods/services in a way that they felt was charitable. (typically it was a house and hunting/fishing land, in exchange for a lifetime of cheap manual labor) I would imagine that in many cases, they would feel proud of their Christian selves for doing so. I think over time this led to the sentiment that blacks shouldn't have nicer things than whites, since it would've been an affront to the family that fancied itself as a "generous provider." (They had an astonishing variety of ways to rationalize segregation & Jim Crow, and in their narrow perspective they thought they were doing the "right thing")
Then of course, you'd have the masses of poor white dirt-farmers who were at the bottom rung of the white ladder, but could still exert enough political pressure to make sure they were legally "above" blacks, since blacks were a threat to this class.
How has all this evolved, though the Civil Rights movement and into today's society? I don't really know. Society has changed, expectations and roles have shifted, generations have come and gone. I guess today's version would be the whites who get angry when they see Cadillac Escalades and Lexuses with $20,000 worth of tires and rims parked in the housing projects.
I watched The Color Purple and I see some of what you are saying in that movie. You have the mayor's wife who seems very charitable towards the poor black population. Then she asks Sophia to be her made. Sophia tells this woman off and alot of people in town get mad at her.
Some places have progressed past that, but you still have that prevailing attitude of paternalism lingering. It may not be as obvious, but it's there.
I watched The Color Purple and I see some of what you are saying in that movie. You have the mayor's wife who seems very charitable towards the poor black population. Then she asks Sophia to be her made. Sophia tells this woman off and alot of people in town get mad at her.
Some places have progressed past that, but you still have that prevailing attitude of paternalism lingering. It may not be as obvious, but it's there.
Agreed, it's still there. It is hard to generalize the complexity of it, though, since we're really talking about a huge group of individual situations. I know that my parents and grandparents were extremely generous - not toward poor people at large, but specifically toward poor blacks. The flip side of the coin is that they frequently treated them as incapable. It is the disconnect between the belief that we're all equal, the obvious reality that there's a wealth/education/health/achievement gap, and the perception that we (whites) are responsible for it, either tacitly or overtly.
My primary education was far more liberal than my parents' or grandparents' education was, so at a young age we were all taught ad nauseum about how awful, bigoted, and racist that us white southerners are.
In most cases, I think this method of education has been a benefit and has really moderated the views of my generation. In other cases, it has backfired and produced pissed-off, disaffected white kids who lash out at blacks. These are the kids who drive by and yell "N*****!" I've always thought it had as much to do with rebellion and shock value than it does with racism or hate. I have plenty of friends from back home who fit both categories.
Agreed, it's still there. It is hard to generalize the complexity of it, though, since we're really talking about a huge group of individual situations. I know that my parents and grandparents were extremely generous - not toward poor people at large, but specifically toward poor blacks. The flip side of the coin is that they frequently treated them as incapable. It is the disconnect between the belief that we're all equal, the obvious reality that there's a wealth/education/health/achievement gap, and the perception that we (whites) are responsible for it, either tacitly or overtly.
My primary education was far more liberal than my parents' or grandparents' education was, so at a young age we were all taught ad nauseum about how awful, bigoted, and racist that us white southerners are.
In most cases, I think this method of education has been a benefit and has really moderated the views of my generation. In other cases, it has backfired and produced pissed-off, disaffected white kids who lash out at blacks. These are the kids who drive by and yell "N*****!" I've always thought it had as much to do with rebellion and shock value than it does with racism or hate. I have plenty of friends from back home who fit both categories.
I was taught from an early age(10, 11) that the South was very bigoted compared to the North. Today I know that both places are about the same, just in different ways. I was educated under the same principal.
I think there have always been those kids who would drive by and do such things. One guy did that to me.
I don't intend to start a fight here, but I am inquiring on this to see what others think. I have grown up(at least in my teen years) thinking the South was the worst place for race relations. I hear from some people that the South is the worst. I hear from others that the North is worse. I end up settling with the fact that both regions have the same issue, just in different ways.
I was later told this about race relations(this is what I was told): I was told that in the South the prevailing mentality of some if that there is a "We can get along, but know your place. Don't get out of place and we'll be fine mentality" and in the North the prevailing mentality among some was more "You can make more money than me, be more educated or even have a bigger house, but I would rather not live next door to you". I was even told that Dr. King may have quoted this. I figured this might have summed up race relations, but I always figured each case is different. What do you think?
I think that a person's view on what is racist is purely subjective.
I find it interesting that no matter what I hear about the South, we can always count on that region to support the political ideology that has more commonality with the klan than not. The South is always painted RED during election years, so true even this year with the emergence of a great man in Obama who happens to be black. I would've been astonished to see states like Mississippi and Alabama go for Obama. This would've spoken volumes about how far the South has truly come. Racists and white segregationalists complain about blacks not being educated and giving the honest effort, yet when a black man is presented to them who has done just that, they shun him for an inferior white candidate in McCain. I appears like many supported McCain because Obama is black. Quite pathetic.
Racism exists everywhere in this country, even in the Northeast. But the Northeast voted against Bush in '00 and '04, and overwhelmingly voted for Obama. What this tells me is that, though ignorant racist people exist everywhere, there is a far greater proportion of these rejects in the South than there is in the more densely populated Northeast. Other northern regions like the Midwest and N. CA, Oregon, and WA go likewise.
Yes, I'm proud to be a yankee. I find that in the North, it is easier to simply be a "person."
I wouldn't be surprised that it happens in Philly. It has happened in Boston too.
In Boston, black people are being jumped and even murdered.....by other blacks.
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