If you were to buy now and live in later... (Cleveland: how much, houses)

[WRnative]

Have you ever looked at Cleveland's West Park neighborhood, which has a nearby Red Line stations and is close to the Rocky River Reservation and Lakewood?

See the Triskett and West Park stations and connected bus lines.

Red Line | Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority

I'm not overly familiar with the area, but I've known persons who lived there and enjoyed it.

One concern that I would have is the proximity of the airport and possible jet engine noise.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...85_rect/13_zm/

My impression is that you would enjoy Lakewood more, but properties may be more expensive in Lakewood.

Personally, I really like the Cleveland Hts. neighborhood nearest University Circle and Little Italy, west of Mayfield Road. Friends that live there walk to Little Italy and the Little Italy Red Line station for trips downtown. Homes in that area can be larger and list for $300-500,000, but there are exceptions.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...18_rect/14_zm/

This website may be useful.

Moderator cut: Link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed

As you don't care about schools, Forest Hill in East Cleveland may offer the best value and appreciation upside in Greater Cleveland, especially if Cleveland annexes East Cleveland eventually and assuming Greater University Circle eventually spills east into East Cleveland. This house may be in the Forest Hill estates.

I wonder where you can buy more house for this money, in what is generally regarded as a pleasant neighborhood. East Cleveland, as a whole, may be the most distressed and poorest city in Ohio. Nela Park, a major employer there, may soon be sold or closed by GE, and the city has been crippled by Ohio Republicans cutting local government funds for urban areas.

https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sal...35_rect/13_zm/

FHHO History

See post 26 in this thread.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/cleve...borhood-3.html

[Rosebush1]

I personally would wait until you are within a year of moving and by then prices may have leveled off. Or wait until the next economic downturn when housing prices will fall. Save on management fees, stress and worry. Leave the speculation to experienced developers.
We owned rental property for years but never outside our home city. The bottom of the market was 2007-2010 when it was a great time to buy, rehab and flip.
We are in Central Ohio and there is a ridiculous housing bubble going on here. Especially for first time buyers. The floor price to get into desirable areas has skyrocketed but at some point it will level off.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by WRnative

As you don't care about schools, Forest Hill in East Cleveland may offer the best value and appreciation upside in Greater Cleveland, especially if Cleveland annexes East Cleveland eventually and assuming Greater University Circle eventually spills east into East Cleveland. This house may be in the Forest Hill estates.

I wonder where you can buy more house for this money, in what is generally regarded as a pleasant neighborhood. East Cleveland, as a whole, may be the most distressed and poorest city in Ohio. Nela Park, a major employer there, may soon be sold or closed by GE, and the city has been crippled by Ohio Republicans cutting local government funds for urban areas.

I would be very wary of buying in East Cleveland -- even in its "nicer" areas. It's not only schools... the city's finances are in such bad shape that they're having trouble providing basic services -- police, fire, etc. And there's no guarantee that Cleveland will annex anytime soon.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by andrew61

I would be very wary of buying in East Cleveland -- even in its "nicer" areas. It's not only schools... the city's finances are in such bad shape that they're having trouble providing basic services -- police, fire, etc. And there's no guarantee that Cleveland will annex anytime soon.

All true, but the nice area is really nice and ridiculously cheap. Persons reportedly enjoy living there. And part of Forest Hill is in Cleveland Heights.

My biggest concern would be that Forest Hill properties aren't easily convenient for a walk to Euclid Ave. or Little Italy. It is a place that I would want to check out, however, talk to residents, if I were exploring purchasing a property in proximity to Cleveland. I may enjoy University Circle more than does Teacherdad and his wife.

Of course, I wouldn't be surprised that covenants in Forest Hill prevent rentals.

[october2007]

Originally Posted by WRnative

All true, but the nice area is really nice and ridiculously cheap. Persons reportedly enjoy living there. And part of Forest Hill is in Cleveland Heights.

My biggest concern would be that Forest Hill properties aren't easily convenient for a walk to Euclid Ave. or Little Italy. It is a place that I would want to check out, however, talk to residents, if I were exploring purchasing a property in proximity to Cleveland. I may enjoy University Circle more than does Teacherdad and his wife.

Of course, I wouldn't be surprised that covenants in Forest Hill prevent rentals.

There's also the issue with higher property taxes in these areas which can be prohibitive.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by october2007

There's also the issue with higher property taxes in these areas which can be prohibitive.

To say property taxes are "prohibitive" doesn't reflect the reality that the marginal differences in property taxes are reflected in the relatively lower property values, often much lower given the relative quality of houses, in some high property tax areas. What persons pay in higher taxes they save in lower mortgage payments or opportunity cost by investing less in properties than is necessary in lower tax jurisdictions, where purchase prices are relatively higher to reflect lower property taxes, all other things being equal.

Admittedly, home ownership in SH or even a low tax rate jurisdiction such as Beachwood, may be "prohibitive" for you and others. but obviously desirable for those with greater financial resources.

A concern would be if any tax reform effectively eliminates the ability to deduct state and local taxes for many, if not all, taxpayers. Such a tax reform should result in relatively lower house prices in a higher tax rate jurisdiction, all taxes considered.

Such an elimination should lower property values and home ownership across the board, but more so in areas with relatively high property tax rates.

Anybody purchasing a home should consider total monthly cost of ownership, adjusting for the size and quality of the building, as well as the relative utility of the location. E.g., Shaker Hts. has high real estate taxes, but also relatively high per pupil school expenditures and superior city services compared with many communities, including very robust mass transit options.

Admittedly, school expenditures may not matter to some purchasers, so the utility of SH properties is lessened for such purchasers.

Someone who needs a relatively small house, and who doesn't care about schools, could find a much lower cost of ownership in place such as Euclid. Obviously, a home purchase is much more affordable in Euclid, but many persons living in SH would never consider Euclid, and so a home purchase in SH is NOT prohibitive for them given their financial resources.

[october2007]

Originally Posted by WRnative

To say property taxes are "prohibitive" doesn't reflect the reality that the marginal differences in property taxes are reflected in the relatively lower property values, often much lower given the relative quality of houses, in some high property tax areas. What persons pay in higher taxes they save in lower mortgage payments or opportunity cost by investing less in properties than is necessary in lower tax jurisdictions, where purchase prices are relatively higher to reflect lower property taxes, all other things being equal.

Admittedly, home ownership in SH or even a low tax rate jurisdiction such as Beachwood, may be "prohibitive" for you and others. but obviously desirable for those with greater financial resources.

A concern would be if any tax reform effectively eliminates the ability to deduct state and local taxes for many, if not all, taxpayers. Such a tax reform should result in relatively lower house prices in a higher tax rate jurisdiction, all taxes considered.

Such an elimination should lower property values and home ownership across the board, but more so in areas with relatively high property tax rates.

Anybody purchasing a home should consider total monthly cost of ownership, adjusting for the size and quality of the building, as well as the relative utility of the location. E.g., Shaker Hts. has high real estate taxes, but also relatively high per pupil school expenditures and superior city services compared with many communities, including very robust mass transit options.

Admittedly, school expenditures may not matter to some purchasers, so the utility of SH properties is lessened for such purchasers.

Someone who needs a relatively small house, and who doesn't care about schools, could find a much lower cost of ownership in place such as Euclid. Obviously, a home purchase is much more affordable in Euclid, but many persons living in SH would never consider Euclid, and so a home purchase in SH is NOT prohibitive for them given their financial resources.

I guess I just don't see the appeal of buying property with high taxes when the property values are on the low side.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by october2007

I guess I just don't see the appeal of buying property with high taxes when the property values are on the low side.

It's clear to see by migration trends in the region that people have chosen to go with low taxes. One of the reasons for the exodus from Cuyahoga County in the last 5 decades.

I myself am not in favor of high property taxes. However, I get WRnative's point, that when you can buy a house for so cheap, a seemingly high property tax in percentage terms ends up not being all that high in absolute dollar terms. What I would not want though is to keep paying those high property taxes as the value of my home gets higher (hopefully).

[C-rob2727]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

It's clear to see by migration trends in the region that people have chosen to go with low taxes. One of the reasons for the exodus from Cuyahoga County in the last 5 decades .

This is very true, and a big reason why so many are now flocking back to the city. They're moving in to take advantage of the 15yr property tax abatement. It's a huge incentive versus buying in the suburbs.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by C-rob2727

This is very true, and a big reason why so many are now flocking back to the city. They're moving in to take advantage of the 15yr property tax abatement. It's a huge selling point versus buying in the suburbs.

Tax abatements might be able to attract some people back, but long term I think they'd do better to just across the board lower all taxes.