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Old 01-08-2015, 09:41 AM
 
2,639 posts, read 5,056,610 times
Reputation: 2346

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JC84 View Post
For everyone who wants to believe that there's no difference in tipping between blacks and whites: Cornell did a study on it and you're wrong. (Though anyone who has ever been a server already knew that)

https://www.hotelschool.cornell.edu/...act-13851.html


Even my black coworkers didn't want to wait on black customers. Sorry, but more often than not they are just terrible.

Also, the entire notion that a word is off limits to certain people based on their skin color is amazingly stupid, and further keeps a divide up.
Good thing my college was unbiased in their methodology for debunking such things.
  1. The report is not public, meaning there is no access to the detail that drove the outcomes. Means there's no way to confirm whether their sample sizes or strategy was appropriate.
  2. There's no information shared as far as philosophy for tips: It gives assumptive understanding about tip percentages but doesn't share whether that understanding is common between blacks/whites;
  3. There's no information about restaurant types or locations (a Black down in Georgia is 100% going to be less likely to tip due to the rampant racism that still exists. Can you say the same is true in Arkansas? South Dakota? Idaho?)
  4. There's no information about meal prices; and
  5. There's no information about salaries of the sample users (in other words, "middle class" in Hangem, Montana is different than "middle class" in Stamford, Connecticut, and upper class needs to be included, otherwise you can't confirm that salary wasn't a lurking variable)
  6. There's no information considering the salary disparity between blacks and whites in the same jobs (which has been validated in other studies).

Now, maybe most of that's in the report. If so, and you want credibility, publish it so we can see. A sample size of 10 is useless; a sample size in one state is useless; a sample size in two salary ranges (ignoring the one most likely to tip) is useless.

As far as "the 15- to 20-percent restaurant tipping norm", where'd that "norm" come from? An assumptive understanding? Tips were initially designed to be optional based on the level and quality of service. So is it that the sample users chose not to tip at all, or did they tip but did so based on what they felt they should? Because those are two different cases.

If I order a $15.67 pizza, I'm giving a $20 and telling them to keep the change. That's close to 20%. But that's only because I don't feel like carrying change.

If I go to a restaurant and have a $80 meal, I'm not tipping $16-$20 unless the service was absolutely amazing. I'm not doing it "just because it's the norm" screw that. If the service was basic they're getting maybe $5-$10. If the service was terrible they're not getting a tip. Most every non-black person I know uses the same methodology. In fact I've been on dates with non-black women who have explicitly said "she didn't do anything to deserve a tip!!" and I've had to push back saying I'd at least leave a $5 because she didn't do anything negative that would cause me not to at least appreciate her serving our table.

If I figure the server has served 50 tables in a 6 hour day, doing an average job and each table tipped $5, that's $250 she got, cash, plus her base, which should be at least minimum wage. Assuming a minimum of, say, $7/hour, and assuming the restaurant isn't stealing part of the tips (which I know a lot do, that's on them to fix), that's nearly $300/day. $72,000/year! Well more than enough to survive on and not be complaining about.

That's the way it should be. Not just give a crack ton of cash to servers who don't do anything above their job. It's their employers' job to pay fair wages as a base, whether that's minimum wage or slightly above. It's the server's job to earn their tip. If they go above and beyond they deserve to be rewarded, I absolutely agree. But only under that scenario.

Now, if I weren't making the salary I make now, I wouldn't be so crisp about how I tip. If my salary were double what it is now, that $5 could easily turn into $25, simply because I have more money. I still wouldn't hold to some assumptive standard of tip. It's based on what they earned and the level of effort put forth, not "just because".

Could you imagine sales reps getting commissions "just because they showed up to work and made a call", regardless of whether or not the customer actually bought a lot of product? Company would go out of business. Tips work the same way. You earn that money, it's not granted. That's called salary.
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Old 01-08-2015, 02:50 PM
 
Location: H-Tine, Texas
6,742 posts, read 3,868,781 times
Reputation: 8522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpoke_TX View Post
It is precisely because that word was & is used to degrade an entire race of people that nobody (black, white, black & white mixed, and otherwise) should use it.

But if some folks are going to use it, then everybody should be able to use it. And if it's going to be used, it should be received like all other words, i.e. its connotation should be determined by context and the speaker's tone of voice & body language, not by the speaker's race or ethnicity.
Yeah, go ahead and try that and see how that works out for you (regardless of what race you decide to use a racial slur against).

The obsession with non-black people wanting to use the 'n' word is just creepy and weird.
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Old 01-08-2015, 03:01 PM
 
38,059 posts, read 15,294,447 times
Reputation: 16804
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATG5 View Post
.....
The obsession with non-black people wanting to use the 'n' word is just creepy and weird.
I have yet to meet a White, Asian, or whatever that "wants" to use the N-word presumably because they can't. That is silly. If they want to use it, they will use it.

The issue, which obviously you are trying to distract from, is the dichotomy of a minority wanting to use a word as part of their culture while at the same time getting hugely offended if anyone else does. In this case it's members of the African American subculture & the N-word, vs Western Civilization at large.
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Old 01-08-2015, 03:41 PM
 
Location: the Permian Basin
4,093 posts, read 2,820,753 times
Reputation: 5665
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATG5 View Post
Yeah, go ahead and try that and see how that works out for you (regardless of what race you decide to use a racial slur against).

The obsession with non-black people wanting to use the 'n' word is just creepy and weird.
ATG5: It is highly offensive for a non-black person to use the N word, so why isn't it equally offensive for a black person to use it?


Does the word hurt black people, or doesn't it?
If not, then anyone can use it, no harm no foul.
If it does, then nobody should use it.


I don't want to use the N word, in fact, I don't want anyone to use that word. What I do want is to eliminate the double-standard that surrounds the usage of the N word. Double standards are what Dr. King, Medgar Evers, and other civil rights leaders fought to overcome.
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Old 01-08-2015, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
2,435 posts, read 2,719,759 times
Reputation: 2579
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
I wonder how many of those falsely outraged people listen to rap music peppered with the word "that no White person is allowed to say".
So what? Unless you're a racist bigot, you would have no desire nor care who utters any slurs, no matter how many morons defile themselves. Period.
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Old 01-08-2015, 03:53 PM
 
38,059 posts, read 15,294,447 times
Reputation: 16804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Opinionated View Post
So what? ..... Period
Period? LOL.

It's already been answered ad nauseum in this topic since I posted that. If you are really interested in an answer then I recommend a read through the posts. If instead, you were making some sort of thinly veiled insult because you can't logically address what was written, then you did a poor job compared to those which have also been made in this topic.
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Old 01-08-2015, 04:19 PM
 
2,178 posts, read 1,721,581 times
Reputation: 4062
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
I have yet to meet a White, Asian, or whatever that "wants" to use the N-word presumably because they can't. That is silly. If they want to use it, they will use it.

The issue, which obviously you are trying to distract from, is the dichotomy of a minority wanting to use a word as part of their culture while at the same time getting hugely offended if anyone else does. In this case it's members of the African American subculture & the N-word, vs Western Civilization at large.
"dichotomy of a minority wanting to use a word as part of their culture" LMAOOO What? No, just no.

This thread needs to be locked, this discussion isn't getting anywhere...
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Old 01-08-2015, 04:42 PM
 
38,059 posts, read 15,294,447 times
Reputation: 16804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Railman96 View Post
"dichotomy of a minority wanting to use a word as part of their culture" LMAOOO What? No, just no..
Seems like you understood it quite well, despite the big words. Too bad you can only address it by trying to shut down the conversation.
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Old 01-08-2015, 06:17 PM
 
3,720 posts, read 4,439,256 times
Reputation: 4741
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATG5 View Post
We'll agree to disagree, but I'm pretty sure I'm little more brushed up on my African American knowledge than you are.

Blacks...have words just as hateful to whites? That might be the funniest thing I've heard in 2015.

Yeah, I remember reading in my history books in school about how blacks made whites sit at separate counters, use separate facilities, made them sit in the back of the bus, turned water-hoses on them, lynched them for whistling at their black women, bombed their churches, harassed them when they were just trying to go school, etc., all while using a specific word to degrade and insult them, years after they enslaved them, unmercifully beat and whipped the men and raped the women.

Oh wait....

I'm sure some white people call other white friends cracker or redneck (you notice how I don't have to censor those words, right?), but I have no desire to use any of those terms towards white people. You get it now??



This is getting old. NOT ALL AFRICAN AMERICANS USE IT. Just because some use it doesn't mean you should be able to use it, when historically it had a negative/evil meaning when white people used it.

I'm not sure if you are aware of this.......but I cannot control what other black people do. Stop holding ME responsible for stuff THEY do. If they use the 'n' word in public, if they don't tip the waiter, if they wear their pants below their hips, that's what THEY do, but it doesn't reflect ME or the millions of African Americans that don't practice these behaviors.

Like I said, feel free to use it if your obsession/desire to use it is that strong. Just be prepared to handle the potential consequences.
If it bothers him so much I don't know why he doesn't publicly confront the people who are doing it.
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Old 01-08-2015, 06:26 PM
 
2,178 posts, read 1,721,581 times
Reputation: 4062
Quote:
Originally Posted by WaldoKitty View Post
Seems like you understood it quite well, despite the big words. Too bad you can only address it by trying to shut down the conversation.
You consider dichotomy a "big word"? LoL

Did you check out ATG5's post? Oh I forgot, being literate isn't apart of your people's culture...
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