Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
would national legalization help... maybe ... after Phillip morris.. con Agra and Monsanto take over... then potheads can really complain.
There you and I agree. I'm not saying "crack" is good. I don't endorse doing it. I don't use it, and wouldn't if it were legal. But the War on (some Drugs) is the greater of two evils. It has created the cartels. It is responsible for as much as half of the murders in our country today. The drugs themselves, especially if manufactured with adequate QC, would be much less worse for our society.
Humans desire drugs. That's an indisputable fact, and cannot be changed by prohibiting them by laws. Where there is demand there WILL be supply, in this case by evil mother****ers who use bullets instead of lawyers to settle disputes.
There you and I agree. I'm not saying "crack" is good. I don't endorse doing it. I don't use it, and wouldn't if it were legal. But the War on (some Drugs) is the greater of two evils. It has created the cartels. It is responsible for as much as half of the murders in our country today. The drugs themselves, especially if manufactured with adequate QC, would be much less worse for our society.
Humans desire drugs. That's an indisputable fact, and cannot be changed by prohibiting them by laws. Where there is demand there WILL be supply, in this case by evil mother****ers who use bullets instead of lawyers to settle disputes.
It's far beyond time we put them out of business.
We do agree.. except for one fact
We wont put them out of business.. all intelligence that I am privy to shows they will expand exponentially
If marijuana was to become legal the cartels will simply move into formalized organized crime to a much greater extent than they are now.. it will be shell companies and dummy corporations and and expansion of federal law enforcement like nobody's business...
The cartels are here.. they are firmly entrenched in the illegal.. quasi legal trade.. if we have mass legalization they will be our government...
If marijuana was to become legal the cartels will simply move into formalized organized crime to a much greater extent than they are now.
I'm not suggesting that JUST marijuana be legalized, though that would be a first step. I want cocaine, heroin, PCP, LSD, you name it all legalized for personal use. Not because I think they're good things, but because I think they are not as bad for society as prohibition, as we should have learned in the 40's.
And more importantly, I want them manufactured, distributed, and sold by LEGITIMATE companies, the ones who use lawyers as opposed to bullets to settle disputes.
We can NOT eliminate drugs from our society. I can make ONE phone call right now, to a guy who has a legitimate job during the day, and get whatever I want. Uncle can seize all they want, but that won't affect my ability to get WHATEVER I want, from a personal friend, who is "otherwise" a law abiding citizen, but it's likely that no matter how many steps are in between, the chances are the majority of his available product come from people who kill people for any perceived slight, or possibly even for fun.
Now you could blame him or me for supporting such businesses, and you'd have a point. But stupid, unenforceable, unwanted laws are the real cause that such businesses exist.
We wont put them out of business.. all intelligence that I am privy to shows they will expand exponentially
If marijuana was to become legal the cartels will simply move into formalized organized crime to a much greater extent than they are now.. it will be shell companies and dummy corporations and and expansion of federal law enforcement like nobody's business...
The cartels are here.. they are firmly entrenched in the illegal.. quasi legal trade.. if we have mass legalization they will be our government...
There is NOTHING that can be done about organized crime. You find one way to stop them, they evolve other ways. . . more times than not, it is law enforcement having to evolve to them though.
Sure, legal cannabis isn't going to take them out of business, but it;s on small market that will hit them in their wallets. IIRC, marijuana is only a small fraction of their profits since crystal meth became more popular. . .now THAT is a drug that should be stopped in its tracks, IS a life/future harmer and does NOTHING but destroy users and communities, FAR more so than cannabis.
With one less drug to federally enforce prohibition on, it would open up revenue to fight drugs that really do mess things up for the rest of the population.
Anyone with 2 functioning brain cells can see that cannabis is FAR less of a threat than OTHER drugs that are FAR MORE HARMFUL, yet on a GOVERNMENT SCALE LESS HARMFUL THAN MARIJUANA.
I'm not suggesting that JUST marijuana be legalized, though that would be a first step. I want cocaine, heroin, PCP, LSD, you name it all legalized for personal use. Not because I think they're good things, but because I think they are not as bad for society as prohibition, as we should have learned in the 40's.
And more importantly, I want them manufactured, distributed, and sold by LEGITIMATE companies, the ones who use lawyers as opposed to bullets to settle disputes.
We can NOT eliminate drugs from our society. I can make ONE phone call right now, to a guy who has a legitimate job during the day, and get whatever I want. Uncle can seize all they want, but that won't affect my ability to get WHATEVER I want, from a personal friend, who is "otherwise" a law abiding citizen, but it's likely that no matter how many steps are in between, the chances are the majority of his available product come from people who kill people for any perceived slight, or possibly even for fun.
Now you could blame him or me for supporting such businesses, and you'd have a point. But stupid, unenforceable, unwanted laws are the real cause that such businesses exist.
Cocaine can kill in one use
Heroin... well properly maintained a person can live with heroin... but there are many difficulties and countries that do it that face these issues.. many times it means more social welfare to support addicts... but an addict well supported can live a semi productive life.
PCP has no legitimate use ... and is dangerous.. it kills the body and its users are dangerous.. Ive had many duster run ins in my life.. every one was max 10 psycho...
LSD.. well Ken Kesey and his merry pranksters took plenty of the stuff... and they used IIRC medicinal grade..along with Timothy Leary experimented with every drug you can think of... both died of horrible diseases.. who knows the relationships
There is no good value of LSD MDA Ketamine and a hundred other drugs... they kill the body and damage the mind
I take away from your stance that perhaps you hold libertarian viewpoints about drugs.. mine are more seat of the pants... from seeing how drugs generally are destructive... not just for the person using them (and Im in some agreement that we should be shepherds of our destiny) but to our world sic. others... on so many levels and in so many ways
Heroin... well properly maintained a person can live with heroin... but there are many difficulties and countries that do it that face these issues.. many times it means more social welfare to support addicts... but an addict well supported can live a semi productive life.
I have never used heroin, nor do I knowingly know someone who has, but I'm sure I have even though I don't know it. But I don't have the right, and neither do you (or anyone else) to demand, under penalty of law, that others don't.
Quote:
PCP has no legitimate use ... and is dangerous.. it kills the body and its users are dangerous.. Ive had many duster run ins in my life.. every one was max 10 psycho...
Lots of things kill people. Again, PCP is a drug I've never taken, and I don't even know if it's still a "thing", but I have no right to tell others not to. If it DOES cause people to become dangerous, that's a whole different thing. I know not if that's true or not.
Quote:
LSD.. well Ken Kesey and his merry pranksters took plenty of the stuff... and they used IIRC medicinal grade..along with Timothy Leary experimented with every drug you can think of... both died of horrible diseases.. who knows the relationships
Everybody dies from something. While, at the risk of being repetitive, I have never personally done LSD, it is my understanding that it can release your consciousness into a higher level of being. THAT is something I would very much like to experience.
And yes, I do take a very libertarian stance on it. It's my body. You, whether you as a LEO, a Legislator, a Judge, or anyone else has no right to tell me what I can and can't put into my own body unless it can be categorically documented that by doing so I become a risk to another person. If the risk is ONLY to myself, then the choice is mine to make. If substance-X makes me blow up and take out 3 city blocks, it's totally reasonable to criminalize it. If it only causes me to have a risk of having a heart attack, that's my problem.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
