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The problem with non mandatory vaccination is that it poses a threat to children/adults who, by their health status, cannot get certain vaccinations. If that person has been exposed to a person who caught the disease/virus and had not vaccinated even if they can handle vaccination, can transfer than to an unvaccinated child who reacts badly to that certain vaccination.
Without vaccinations, people would still be dying from small pox and polio en masse.
I think basic vaccinations should be mandatory...polio,varicella, missles, etc. The other vaccinations can be circumstantial (meningitis, hpv, flu....)
Even if the vaccination rate for pertussis was 100% we would still see outbreaks of pertussis. That's a fact.
Let me correct that for you: you MIGHT see one or two pertussis cases with everyone vaccinated. But that would be it. The infection would have no place to go if everyone were vaccinated.
Anyway, your logic has already been found to be faulty. When we had far more children vaccinated against measles 15 years ago, we had no measles cases in the US. Now that parents aren't vaccinating like they should, we are on track for over 400 measles cases this year alone.
"The vaccine skepticism boom of the 2000s, fueled by thoroughly debunked notions of a link between vaccines and autism, contributed to a measles vaccination rate in the U.S. -- 91 percent -- that's now among the lowest in the developed world, and lower than places like Angola, Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, according to the World Bank. That low vaccination rate made possible the explosion of measles cases last year."
And this is for a few of you who thought it was fake:
That one death was from pneumonia, not measles. Would it have even made the news if she had just caught pneumonia and died? A lot of people die from pneumonia. Oh, forgot, we have VACCINES for that too! Manadate that for the entire population too!!!
There have been 5 measles cases in Florida since April; one child, one teen, and three adult travelers. People here like to cite Mississippi and West Virginia which ended non-medical exemptions for children. No measles cases? So you want to compare those states to large population states like California, Florida, or New York? How many travelers do those two states get from across the country or internationally? How many of those two states have former immigrant families living there?
One report said that two of the Florida cases were in the same family and had traveled to another country. Parents, who still have relatives in the old country, would never take a toddler too young for mandatory school vaccinations abroad with them? They certainly DO. If they are US CITIZENS, no vaccination records must be shown for coming back into the country.
Your mandatory school vaccination policy will not eradicate these diseases. Too many OTHER variables. You're "perfect bullying solution" will not solve your problem. if you force vaccinations on children, you still have absolutely no idea how many children or adults in this country have had their MRR shots, boosters, or are not immune like that Washington woman. No solution. Honor system?
That one death was from pneumonia, not measles. Would it have even made the news if she had just caught pneumonia and died? A lot of people die from pneumonia. Oh, forgot, we have VACCINES for that too! Manadate that for the entire population too!!!
But for the fact that she was infected with measles, she would not have died from pneumonia. That's one of the reasons these diseases are so dangerous.
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Originally Posted by Jo48
There have been 5 measles cases in Florida since April; one child, one teen, and three adult travelers. People here like to cite Mississippi and West Virginia which ended non-medical exemptions for children. No measles cases? So you want to compare those states to large population states like California, Florida, or New York? How many travelers do those two states get from across the country or internationally? How many of those two states have former immigrant families living there?
One report said that two of the Florida cases were in the same family and had traveled to another country. Parents, who still have relatives in the old country, would never take a toddler too young for mandatory school vaccinations abroad with them? They certainly DO. If they are US CITIZENS, no vaccination records must be shown for coming back into the country.
You continue to both miss the point entirely and prove the case for vaccinations. Fewer hosts for a disease will mean fewer cases & less spreading of the disease. The very fact that there are those too young or otherwise able to be vaccinated is the very reason this is necessary. The denser the population, and the more transient a population, the more important keeping the percentage of those vaccinated high. It's all right there in your own post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
Your mandatory school vaccination policy will not eradicate these diseases. Too many OTHER variables. You're "perfect bullying solution" will not solve your problem. if you force vaccinations on children, you still have absolutely no idea how many children or adults in this country have had their MRR shots, boosters, or are not immune like that Washington woman. No solution. Honor system?
They will not be eradicated next year, or in 3 years. But they can be controlled. We can do a much better job of protecting the population. You don't want to opt into that? Fine. Chances are, somewhere down the road, there may be a consequence to that. Even for you.
Let me correct that for you: you MIGHT see one or two pertussis cases with everyone vaccinated. But that would be it. The infection would have no place to go if everyone were vaccinated.
Sorry but you're completely wrong about that. You ignore the fact that the pertussis vaccine does not provide lifetime or even long term immunity, which means adults can and do get pertussis and spread it. You also ignore the increasing evidence of mutations. You are the one who is incorrect.
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Originally Posted by rodentraiser
And this is for a few of you who thought it was fake:
That was posted earlier in the thread. Guess you missed it. Still waiting for the Washington State Department of Health to update their surveillance info to match this county press release.
[quote=MissTerri;40852129]Sorry but you're completely wrong about that. You ignore the fact that the pertussis vaccine does not provide lifetime or even long term immunity, which means adults can and do get pertussis and spread it. You also ignore the increasing evidence of mutations. You are the one who is incorrect.
Neither can you ignore the fact that since the vaccine has given we've had exactly 277 deaths from whooping cough over an eight year period. That's about thirty per year in a country of 300 million people.
Before the vaccine was given the number was about 8,000 per year.
The vaccine is not as long-lasting as other vaccines are. However, it is still an incredibly useful tool.
Problems with the vaccine only highlight the need to keep funding vaccine research to make it better.
Keep up your nonsensical tirade about the pertussis vaccine. One would have to be truly blind not to understand the huge contribution its made. Heaven knows how many thousands of people in this country are alive today because this vaccine was available when they were young.
Sorry but you're completely wrong about that. You ignore the fact that the pertussis vaccine does not provide lifetime or even long term immunity, which means adults can and do get pertussis and spread it. You also ignore the increasing evidence of mutations. You are the one who is incorrect.
Neither can you ignore the fact that since the vaccine has given we've had exactly 277 deaths from whooping cough over an eight year period. That's about thirty per year in a country of 300 million people.
Before the vaccine was given the number was about 8,000 per year.
The vaccine is not as long-lasting as other vaccines are. However, it is still an incredibly useful tool.
Problems with the vaccine only highlight the need to keep funding vaccine research to make it better.
Keep up your nonsensical tirade about the pertussis vaccine. One would have to be truly blind not to understand the huge contribution its made. Heaven knows how many thousands of people in this country are alive today because this vaccine was available when they were young.
You first sentence hits the nail on the head. This is exactly why that Miami Congressman went around for two weeks (flying back and forth to DC) with whooping cough before his doctor even knew himself to test for it.
He was vaccinated in CHILDHOOD, maybe 40 years ago? Again, this is where you mandatory childhood vaccination fails with Pertussis. This is why the numbers for whooping cough are so high. No lifetime immunity. You are going to have to depend on ADULTS to get that Pertussis booster. Their childhood vaccinations have waned for those who even had them.
"Maybe" vaccinated children won't get whooping cough, but adults with waning/no immunity can spread it to other adults, and very young infants. Vaccinating 25% of the population (children) won't give you your "Herd Immunity" against Pertussis.
I don't know about private insurance plans, but I can tell you that Medicare only overs Tdap under Part D which people have to buy into.
Maybe you need to push and make free Tdap vaccinations for all adults like the Flu Shots? Well, you know the response to those among the general public.
You first sentence hits the nail on the head. This is exactly why that Miami Congressman went around for two weeks (flying back and forth to DC) with whooping cough before his doctor even knew himself to test for it.
He was vaccinated in CHILDHOOD, maybe 40 years ago? Again, this is where you mandatory childhood vaccination fails with Pertussis. This is why the numbers for whooping cough are so high. No lifetime immunity. You are going to have to depend on ADULTS to get that Pertussis booster. Their childhood vaccinations have waned for those who even had them.
"Maybe" vaccinated children won't get whooping cough, but adults with waning/no immunity can spread it to other adults, and very young infants. Vaccinating 25% of the population (children) won't give you your "Herd Immunity" against Pertussis.
I don't know about private insurance plans, but I can tell you that Medicare only overs Tdap under Part D which people have to buy into.
Maybe you need to push and make free Tdap vaccinations for all adults like the Flu Shots? Well, you know the response to those among the general public.
Yep, people don't think. They just like to blame everything on the small minority who don't vaccinate for everything under the sun. The truth of the matter is, the vast majority of people do vaccinate their kids for pertussis and even if we had 100% vaccination rate for pertussis we would still have outbreaks for two reasons. The first having to do with the fact that the pertussis vaccine is not long lasting. The second due to the fact that the pertussis bacteria has shown the ability to mutate. Trying to trick mother nature may work short term, but often not long term. I'm sure though that the same people who welcome mandatory vaccination for children will be overjoyed to welcome mandatory vaccinations for themselves and all adults. That's how extreme some of these folks are. They won't be happy until everyone is forced into filling their bodies up with vaccinations many of which contain known neurotoxins, all in the name of science. Such BS.
Sorry but you're completely wrong about that. You ignore the fact that the pertussis vaccine does not provide lifetime or even long term immunity, which means adults can and do get pertussis and spread it. You also ignore the increasing evidence of mutations. You are the one who is incorrect.
Neither can you ignore the fact that since the vaccine has given we've had exactly 277 deaths from whooping cough over an eight year period. That's about thirty per year in a country of 300 million people.
Before the vaccine was given the number was about 8,000 per year.
The vaccine is not as long-lasting as other vaccines are. However, it is still an incredibly useful tool.
Problems with the vaccine only highlight the need to keep funding vaccine research to make it better.
Keep up your nonsensical tirade about the pertussis vaccine. One would have to be truly blind not to understand the huge contribution its made. Heaven knows how many thousands of people in this country are alive today because this vaccine was available when they were young.
None of my posts have been "nonsensical tirades" against pertussis vaccination. Clearing up misinformation from posters who think the vaccine is perfect is not nonsense, it's truth. Are people even interested in truth or do they just want to believe whatever? So ridiculous.
There have been 5 measles cases in Florida since April; one child, one teen, and three adult travelers. People here like to cite Mississippi and West Virginia which ended non-medical exemptions for children. No measles cases? So you want to compare those states to large population states like California, Florida, or New York? How many travelers do those two states get from across the country or internationally? How many of those two states have former immigrant families living there?
You think no one in Mississippi or W. Virginia ever travels overseas? That not a single foreign visitor has come to either of those states? The comparison is adjusted by using the number of cases per 100,000 population. Mississippi and W. Virginia still have no measles and still have markedly lower pertussis incidence.
Quote:
One report said that two of the Florida cases were in the same family and had traveled to another country. Parents, who still have relatives in the old country, would never take a toddler too young for mandatory school vaccinations abroad with them? They certainly DO. If they are US CITIZENS, no vaccination records must be shown for coming back into the country.
Children as young as 6 months old may receive measles vaccine. Anyone who takes an unvaccinated child to a country where he might be infected with a vaccine preventable disease is an idiot.
All of the Florida cases (two outbreaks, one started by a foreign traveler and one by a returning American) were unvaccinated:
An unvaccinated 6-year-old in St. Lucie County
Two unvaccinated adults in Indian River County, Florida, one of whom contracted measles while traveling out of the country.
Another case in Indian River County, Florida - an unvaccinated child
Another unvaccinated child in St. Lucie County, Florida - bringing the total to five cases in central Florida in what so far looks like two separate outbreaks
The second child attended the same school as the first.
Do you not see the common factor here? That none of the people with measles had been vaccinated?
Quote:
Your mandatory school vaccination policy will not eradicate these diseases. Too many OTHER variables. You're "perfect bullying solution" will not solve your problem. if you force vaccinations on children, you still have absolutely no idea how many children or adults in this country have had their MRR shots, boosters, or are not immune like that Washington woman. No solution. Honor system?
Mandatory vaccination in Mississippi and W. Virginia has resulted in no measles cases in those states for many years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
Sorry but you're completely wrong about that. You ignore the fact that the pertussis vaccine does not provide lifetime or even long term immunity, which means adults can and do get pertussis and spread it. You also ignore the increasing evidence of mutations. You are the one who is incorrect.
No, you are wrong. You are implying that the protection from pertussis vaccine always disappears. That is not true. Many of us are still protected by our childhood vaccines, although it is better for adults to take the Tdap: Just once.
It appears the mutations have been around for a while, and waning immunity is more likely to be the major factor in the increased number of pertussis cases than mutation. Waning immunity can be dealt with by boosters.
Mutations may mean that the vaccine will need to be improved. However, the big factor is not being vaccinated at all.
"Regardless of prn [one of the pertussis mutations] expression, vaccination reduced the severity of disease and the likelihood of being admitted to intensive care, which suggests that even an incomplete course of primary vaccination provides some protection against severe pertussis."
The fact that mutations in pertussis exist is no reason to stop vaccination altogether.
Quote:
That was posted earlier in the thread. Guess you missed it. Still waiting for the Washington State Department of Health to update their surveillance info to match this county press release.
What differene does it make when the statistics are updated? It is still not a hoax.
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