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Do not apologize for using the terms anti-vax, anti-vaccine, antivaxers, etc. For some reason, people who oppose vaccines hate, hate, HATE to be called anti-vaccine, even though, in essence, they are. That lying liar RFK, Jr. says "I'm fiercely pro-vaccine" then goes on to write screed after screed opposing vaccine after vaccine, for example. That has-been (even in the anti-vax movement) Jenny McCarthy says "I'm for safe vaccines", stirring up FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) about the safety of current vaccines. I think it has to do with the negative connotation of being "anti" anything.
Anti-vaxx implies that a person is against all vaccines and that’s not the case for me at least. It’s offensive.
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Don't hijack.
I’m not.
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Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
It happened last year in Europe. Not only could it happen, it's happened!
There’s no comparison between allowing people to drive drunk and allowing people to make healthcare decisions for themselves with the help of their doctor rather then the government.
So you think drunk driving isn't a health issue? Then what do you call it when a drunk driver hits you with his car and puts you into the hospital?
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Originally Posted by MissTerri
Your choice also adversely effects others. People are definitely trying to force vaccination upon everyone. Yourself included. You’ll never get 100% voluntary compliance for anything really.
Your grandson should be protected via maternal antibodies up until he’s old enough to be vaccinated. His odds of dying from measles are extremely low. His odds of even catching measles are low. It’s unrealistic for you to expect everyone to do as you do. Try not to get hysterical. The vaccine also has risks. Which is why you can’t demand that everyone comply, or else.
Antibodies. Sure. Now what's your excuse for immune suppressed people, like the woman in the Washington hospital that died of measles brought in by an unvaccinated person?
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Originally Posted by MissTerri
Your child is more at risk from dying from a bee sting, a bicycle accident, a pedestrian accident, a fall, a gun accident then they are from dying from measles. Please educate yourself. https://injuryfacts.nsc.org/all-inju...odds-of-dying/
It's a percentage of kids dying from measles you need to be worried about. As measles cases go up, so do the percentages. And it's just not kids dying. It's kids who survive but are deaf, blind or brain damaged because of measles. Funny, isn't that autism "brain damage" that you're so concerned with when kids get a vaccination, yet you're willing to risk brain damage by not vaccinating them?
And again, no one cares about YOUR kids. It's our kids you're threatening when you don't vaccinate. As far as I'm concerned, every unvaccinated kid on earth (along with their unvaccinated parents) can go to that big kool-aid tent in the sky when these diseases come around. But you don't just kick off yourselves. You take others with you. Unfortunately.
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Originally Posted by MissTerri
Better ban cars so that you don’t get killed in a car crash or as a pedestrian. You don’t drive do you? If so you’re putting others in grave danger. hope you don’t swim either. That’s dangerous.
Better not eat, either. You might die of choking on your food. See how silly that sounds?
We will always have measles outbreaks even with 100% measles vaccine compliance.
Measles was eradicated in the US in 2000. Because of vaccination. Try again.
And again, some people get the measles vaccine and it doesn't take. I have a friend who's like this. One of the many reasons we vaccinate is to protect people like her. Maybe that health worker would have lived if he had been surrounded by people who had the vaccination - you know, HERD IMMUNITY.
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Originally Posted by Jo48
Ok, let's put deadly measles in perspective here. How many have DIED from these outbreaks? ZERO.
Again, deaths are a percentage of the number of people who get measles. As the number of people getting measles increases, so will the chances of people dying. The point of the vaccines is to ensure that people don't get measles so they won't die!
By the way, 11 people have died from measles since 2000 and in an outbreak of measles from 1989 to 1991, amid 55,622 cases, there were 123 deaths.
Yes, I have read that NYC wants to shut down these schools for failure to vaccinate. My SIL is a NYC Public School Teacher All I can say to you is that they will face religious discrimination lawsuits if they try this. Not quite in the same vein as Waldorf Schools.
It's the opposite, as a matter of fact. If religious people have to be vaccinated just like the rest of us, that will NOT be discrimination. Lack of vaccination has nothing to do with religion.
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Originally Posted by MissTerri
You really don’t understand choice, do you?
No, you're the one who doesn't understand choice. I choose that MY child's health isn't compromised by someone else's fantasies. Again, if YOUR choice to not vaccinate involved ONLY your child, and your child died because of your choice, I wouldn't care about you or your child and you could have all the choices you wanted when it comes to vaccination. But when your choice involves possible deaths to other children, then you don't get to have a choice anymore.
You want to kill your kid because you don't believe in blood transfusions? Fine by me. But you get no say over forcing other people to withhold blood transfusions for their kids. Just like if you want to kill your kid by not getting him vaccinated, fine by me. Just don't bring your germy, unvaccinated and potentially deadly child out in public where the rest of us have to be exposed to him.
It's kind of like handling vegetables at a market. If you're going to handle the veggies at the store with your bare hands, you need to wash your hands. What you do in your own home we don't care about. But when it comes to public health, you wash your damn hands when you handle the food other people are going to eat. If you can't do that, you don't get to choose to work with vegetables for sale to the public. That's how it works.
You SHARE this society with other people. Some things you do can affect the whole community and when the community can be harmed by what you personally do, they have every right to expect you to mitigate that behavior and force you to do so if you refuse to change. So you can either change or leave the community. That's your choice right there.
I'm not trying to be difficult. I'm just trying to understand.
And so you don't have to go back and search, here were the questions I asked:
Do you simply disbelieve that could ever happen again? Do you think the decrease of childhood deaths is more related to hygiene than to vaccines? (I certainly do not). Does individual freedom trump the right of children to have the best shot of surviving? Does the past not frighten you? This topic could expand into every aspect of healthcare for children, like how do you deal with parents who only believe in prayer for treating any disease?
I'll comment a little here. I'm pro-choice on this as well. I had both kinds of measles when I was a kid, plus mumps, chicken pox and scarlet fever. When my kids were little, they all had chicken pox, so did their friends, the thinking then was it was better to get it when you were young. No one freaked out, most times there wasn't a need to go to the doctor. Back then we didn't reduce fevers either, we'd wait for them to break and then we'd feel better.
Out of my 5 children and 10 grandchildren, all but 1 have been fully vaccinated. My youngest had a terrible reaction after one set of shots and her pediatrician said we wouldn't give her any more. My family doctor agreed. I was scared (not terrified), but they both assured me that if she got sick, they would treat her.
As she has grown up, she has been very healthy, but she's also extremely sensitive to any medications. She almost died from complications of taking birth control pills.
The thought of her or I being attacked by people angry that I didn't force the doctors to continue her vaccinations is frightening to me. So much anger on this thread against those who may be thoughtfully choosing, with their doctors, how to care for their children.
Anti-vaxx implies that a person is against all vaccines and that’s not the case for me at least. It’s offensive.
I’m not.
What happened?
You can make up your own definition. It's irrelevant. Despite that fact that you've been asked many times over which vaccines you find acceptable, you've never, to my knowledge, answered that question. You've written post after post against numerous vaccines.
You are hijacking when you keep talking on about sexual assault. Not to mention, you have told others not to hijack in the past.
What happened? That's hilarious! You don't know about the HUGE measles outbreak in Europe? Seriously? Someone as involved in vaccines as you doesn't know that there were 80,000 cases of measles in Europe last year with 72 deaths, approx. 1 death per thousand cases, all in countries with UHCs. There was a 61% hospitalization rate; 87% unvaccinated. https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l634 https://www.precisionvaccinations.co...es-during-2017
I'll comment a little here. I'm pro-choice on this as well. I had both kinds of measles when I was a kid, plus mumps, chicken pox and scarlet fever. When my kids were little, they all had chicken pox, so did their friends, the thinking then was it was better to get it when you were young. No one freaked out, most times there wasn't a need to go to the doctor. Back then we didn't reduce fevers either, we'd wait for them to break and then we'd feel better.
Out of my 5 children and 10 grandchildren, all but 1 have been fully vaccinated. My youngest had a terrible reaction after one set of shots and her pediatrician said we wouldn't give her any more. My family doctor agreed. I was scared (not terrified), but they both assured me that if she got sick, they would treat her.
As she has grown up, she has been very healthy, but she's also extremely sensitive to any medications. She almost died from complications of taking birth control pills.
The thought of her or I being attacked by people angry that I didn't force the doctors to continue her vaccinations is frightening to me. So much anger on this thread against those who may be thoughtfully choosing, with their doctors, how to care for their children.
No one, I mean NO ONE, is criticizing or "attacking" people who have valid medical exemptions for not vaccinating. That's just muddying the waters of this issue.
I'll comment a little here. I'm pro-choice on this as well. I had both kinds of measles when I was a kid, plus mumps, chicken pox and scarlet fever. When my kids were little, they all had chicken pox, so did their friends, the thinking then was it was better to get it when you were young. No one freaked out, most times there wasn't a need to go to the doctor. Back then we didn't reduce fevers either, we'd wait for them to break and then we'd feel better.
Out of my 5 children and 10 grandchildren, all but 1 have been fully vaccinated. My youngest had a terrible reaction after one set of shots and her pediatrician said we wouldn't give her any more. My family doctor agreed. I was scared (not terrified), but they both assured me that if she got sick, they would treat her.
As she has grown up, she has been very healthy, but she's also extremely sensitive to any medications. She almost died from complications of taking birth control pills.
The thought of her or I being attacked by people angry that I didn't force the doctors to continue her vaccinations is frightening to me. So much anger on this thread against those who may be thoughtfully choosing, with their doctors, how to care for their children.
Not one poster has said vaccinations should be forced or that a child like your granddaughter should be vaccinated having had a medical issue that then makes vaccines a risk for her. I support choice as well, but if someone chooses not to vaccinate for a non medical reason, I also support states in banning those kids from daycare, K-12 and college. They’re not forced, but they do have to accept the consequences of that choice.
You, of all people, should be adamantly for vaccination of people who have no medical issue that precludes it. The herd immunity we share with a largely vaccinated population protects people specifically like your granddaughter. She can’t get vaccinated so it’s incumbent on the rest of us to do so so she enjoys as much protection from disease as we can give her.
Ok, you medical professionals, and pro vaccinators, where is your outrage over the 186 children who died from the FLU last year? 80,000 adults? How many have died from Measles last year?
Come on, you medical professionals! DEMAND that all children get their YEARLY Flu Shots, or not be able to attend school, and while you are at it (Suzy Q), raise the premiums for every ADULT who doesn't do the same. Why are you singling out just Measles vaccinations? This is because the general public has bought your Kool Aid for these other diseases, but not your propaganda for "Deadly Flu". "Doctors have never seen measles before". Damn, I HAVE and can tell you just by looking the difference between measles and chicken pox. They do not even look alike.
Flu quarantine is very soon if people don't put a stop to all this right now.
Ok, you medical professionals, and pro vaccinators, where is your outrage over the 186 children who died from the FLU last year? 80,000 adults? How many have died from Measles last year?
Come on, you medical professionals! DEMAND that all children get their YEARLY Flu Shots, or not be able to attend school, and while you are at it (Suzy Q), raise the premiums for every ADULT who doesn't do the same. Why are you singling out just Measles vaccinations? This is because the general public has bought your Kool Aid for these other diseases, but not your propaganda for "Deadly Flu". "Doctors have never seen measles before". Damn, I HAVE and can tell you just by looking the difference between measles and chicken pox. They do not even look alike.
Flu quarantine is very soon if people don't put a stop to all this right now.
Where’s your outrage at the 110,000 people who died of measles last year? They weren’t US citizens, but there will be US deaths someday soon if we continue to allow anti vaxxers to forgo vaccines just because.
I’m a fan of everyone getting a flu shot. But until it’s a mandatory vaccine kids can’t be excluded from school like they can for vaccines that are mandatory. In 2018, schools in 12 states closed during periods of time due to high flu cases within both the student and teacher populations so, yes I do hope one day it will be mandatory for school attendance.
I'll comment a little here. I'm pro-choice on this as well. I had both kinds of measles when I was a kid, plus mumps, chicken pox and scarlet fever. When my kids were little, they all had chicken pox, so did their friends, the thinking then was it was better to get it when you were young. No one freaked out, most times there wasn't a need to go to the doctor. Back then we didn't reduce fevers either, we'd wait for them to break and then we'd feel better.
Out of my 5 children and 10 grandchildren, all but 1 have been fully vaccinated. My youngest had a terrible reaction after one set of shots and her pediatrician said we wouldn't give her any more. My family doctor agreed. I was scared (not terrified), but they both assured me that if she got sick, they would treat her.
As she has grown up, she has been very healthy, but she's also extremely sensitive to any medications. She almost died from complications of taking birth control pills.
The thought of her or I being attacked by people angry that I didn't force the doctors to continue her vaccinations is frightening to me. So much anger on this thread against those who may be thoughtfully choosing, with their doctors, how to care for their children.
The anger and hatred is really hard to take from people who don’t understand. There are states where they are trying to limit medical exemptions to ACIP guidelines which essentially means if the reactions was anything other then anaphylaxis your daughter would have to get subsequent vaccinations even though you and your doctor agreed that she should not get anymore.
I’m really frustrated and sad that people have gotten so hysterical over this that they feel emboldened to treat others so terribly. It scares me to see how easily people will give up their right to choose and not see anything at all wrong with coercion that greatly impacts peoepls’ lives and eliminates choice.
Ok, you medical professionals, and pro vaccinators, where is your outrage over the 186 children who died from the FLU last year? 80,000 adults? How many have died from Measles last year?
Come on, you medical professionals! DEMAND that all children get their YEARLY Flu Shots, or not be able to attend school, and while you are at it (Suzy Q), raise the premiums for every ADULT who doesn't do the same. Why are you singling out just Measles vaccinations? This is because the general public has bought your Kool Aid for these other diseases, but not your propaganda for "Deadly Flu". "Doctors have never seen measles before". Damn, I HAVE and can tell you just by looking the difference between measles and chicken pox. They do not even look alike.
Flu quarantine is very soon if people don't put a stop to all this right now.
We talked and talked and talked some more about the kids dying from flu last year. The anti-vaccine people kept blowing off these deaths, saying the kids weren't healthy to begin with, that they really died of something else, etc, etc, etc.
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Originally Posted by MissTerri
The anger and hatred is really hard to take from people who don’t understand. There are states where they are trying to limit medical exemptions to ACIP guidelines which essentially means if the reactions was anything other then anaphylaxis your daughter would have to get subsequent vaccinations even though you and your doctor agreed that she should not get anymore.
I’m really frustrated and sad that people have gotten so hysterical over this that they feel emboldened to treat others so terribly. It scares me to see how easily people will give up their right to choose and not see anything at all wrong with coercion that greatly impacts peoepls’ lives and eliminates choice.
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
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