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My view is that they're not criminalizing being poor, they're criminalizing not taking advantage of shelter when it's available. Cities aren't wanting to ticket or arrest if the shelters are full and there's nowhere else for these people to go.
The shelters do offer other services besides a bed at night, and the only way to get people to take advantage of those services is to get them into the shelter.
Shelters have rules, and as others on this thread have mentioned, many "homeless" don't want to play by any rules. They want to panhandle, camp on the street, and do drugs. As long as this is allowed, not much will change.
The subset of "homeless" that are mentally ill is a different problem. They need treatment and should be assisted, but it costs money and takes a gargantuan effort to get them into treatment, even if it existed at a scale to help. And who would pay for it?
There is a large % of homeless who are not homeless at all. They are professionals, panhandlers who "work" in various cities scamming people out of money by pretending to be disabled or homeless or "fallen on hard times." Many are scammers. Some have been offered jobs and refused them, saying they make more panhandling and it's tax free.
This is the hardest group to deal with since they are scammers and are well-organized. Many have people who drop them off at their "intersection" and pick them up at night when their "shift" is over. Some of this has made the news in Michigan, Florida and other places. Some have been filmed walking just fine without the wheelchairs and putting them into vans as they head home. One guy "hid" his legs in his wheelchair so it appeared he was disabled. But he was filmed walking with his own legs that miraculously appeared! These are the criminals, not the truly down and out, which is a smaller group, and not the mentally ill.
I used to see a guy here in SE MI limping along a busy street with a "boot" on one foot, asking people for money. Then later in the day, he would take the "boot" off and walk around just fine. One woman here uses her motorized scooter to run around the Whole Foods parking lot harassing people in their cars for money. The scammers go where the money is. She also zooms along Main Street in the summer when people are eating in outside restaurants and harasses people trying to have dinner. Unless the cops see her, it continues.
Shelters have rules, and as others on this thread have mentioned, many "homeless" don't want to play by any rules. They want to panhandle, camp on the street, and do drugs. As long as this is allowed, not much will change.
The subset of "homeless" that are mentally ill is a different problem. They need treatment and should be assisted, but it costs money and takes a gargantuan effort to get them into treatment, even if it existed at a scale to help. And who would pay for it?
There is a large % of homeless who are not homeless at all. They are professionals, panhandlers who "work" in various cities scamming people out of money by pretending to be disabled or homeless or "fallen on hard times." Many are scammers. Some have been offered jobs and refused them, saying they make more panhandling and it's tax free.
This is the hardest group to deal with since they are scammers and are well-organized. Many have people who drop them off at their "intersection" and pick them up at night when their "shift" is over. Some of this has made the news in Michigan, Florida and other places. Some have been filmed walking just fine without the wheelchairs and putting them into vans as they head home. One guy "hid" his legs in his wheelchair so it appeared he was disabled. But he was filmed walking with his own legs that miraculously appeared! These are the criminals, not the truly down and out, which is a smaller group, and not the mentally ill.
I used to see a guy here in SE MI limping along a busy street with a "boot" on one foot, asking people for money. Then later in the day, he would take the "boot" off and walk around just fine. One woman here uses her motorized scooter to run around the Whole Foods parking lot harassing people in their cars for money. The scammers go where the money is. She also zooms along Main Street in the summer when people are eating in outside restaurants and harasses people trying to have dinner. Unless the cops see her, it continues.
I think most shelters you can be out doing what you want until a curfew time, so I don't see what the issue is there. They won't let you be high or drunk, though.
No Canada is not a third world country, and I never said it was, so why the hell did you bring that up? I never said anything about Canada. You are deliberately trying to distort what I said.
But Mexico is a third world country, supposedly. From your link Mexico has 0.04% homeless. Less then one quarter of what it is in the US. And a million Americans, are flocking to Mexico to get healthcare services that they can't get in the US. You can continue to live your life in total denial, but it isn't going to change the fact that what I said is true.
Quote:
THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS ARE CROSSING THE BORDER INTO MEXICO EVERY YEAR TO GET AFFORDABLE MEDICAL TREATMENT
Hundreds of thousands of Americans are crossing the border into Mexico each year to receive a wide range of treatments, including medical services, dental care and cosmetic surgery, experts in what has become known as "medical tourism" say.
According to Josef Woodman, the CEO of Patients Beyond Borders, an organization advocating for medical travel, as many as 800,000 to 1 million American citizens make the trip from the U.S. to Mexico for affordable treatment each year.
American Travelers Seek Cheaper Prescription Drugs In Mexico And Beyond
The U.S. government estimates that close to 1 million people in California alone cross to Mexico annually for health care, including to buy prescription drugs. And between 150,000 and 320,000 Americans list health care as a reason for traveling abroad each year. Cost savings is the most commonly cited reason.
I think most shelters you can be out doing what you want until a curfew time, so I don't see what the issue is there. They won't let you be high or drunk, though.
Most shelters aren't open all day, they open at 8 or 9pm and many have waiting lines. They usually kick everyone out before 8AM. Some are clean but many of them are filthy with bed bugs, fleas and scabies. Many have no security and no privacy so older weaker residents are frequently victimized by other homeless people. Most will not store the property of the homeless so if they have a tent or large back pack they are turned away. Very few shelters give you the right to stay during the day or check in and out, it's usually a one time admission determined not by need but by how early you get in line. The vast majority of shelters are for single men, it's difficult to find women's or family shelters.
My suggestion to Vegas: Hire a competent community manager, give them the $16M to fix the problem. My god, $16 million is made available to change the lives of 5,000 homeless. A good manager would find a way to fix it. Yes, the socialists will scream, yell, whine, but we need to teach these people some discipline. Make the able-bodied people join the military. Many people aren't taught self-discipline. The military will remedy that.
Dry out the druggies and drunks. Force them into rehab. Then send them to a boot camp-like program. Create a program that makes them get up at 6AM, clean, work, cook, do laundry, add training for those to better themselves, and teach them the basics of budgeting, grooming, etc.
Help the elderly, veterans, and disabled, and children. Everyone else has to work for it.
force them into rehab? Please tell us what law allows for the forced detention of people who aren't serving a criminal sentence or haven't been adjudicated gravely mentally ill.
Your link says Mexico is considered both a developing county, and a 3rd world country.
So I guess you're both right. ;D
It was a third world country by the historical definition, which is a country which didn't align with NATO or the Communist Bloc. Nothing to do with socioeconomics or infant mortality or homelessness.
Most shelters aren't open all day, they open at 8 or 9pm and many have waiting lines. They usually kick everyone out before 8AM. Some are clean but many of them are filthy with bed bugs, fleas and scabies. Many have no security and no privacy so older weaker residents are frequently victimized by other homeless people. Most will not store the property of the homeless so if they have a tent or large back pack they are turned away. Very few shelters give you the right to stay during the day or check in and out, it's usually a one time admission determined not by need but by how early you get in line. The vast majority of shelters are for single men, it's difficult to find women's or family shelters.
The shelter here kicks them out during the day too. Someone finally opened a daytime shelter where they could go during the winter but it's closed in the summer.
This one will take anyone for a night, but if you want to stay longer you're required to attend a nightly church service they hold which should be unconstitutional.
But they have counselors who refer shelter clients to mental health services, medical services, dental care, etc which are all free. They also see if they can find govt funded programs that would benefit them, get them signed up for medicaid, see if they're entitled to SS benefits or foodstamps or whatever to help them get back on their feet. And lots of other stuff like that.
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