National Merit Semifinalists 2018 (loan, university, restaurants)

[BLDSoon]

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

They absolutely do.

We can agree to disagree.

I have to say though, this "we arent admitted enough" complaint smacks of greed and entitlement of the highest order. As if having high scores somehow entitles you to admission. It doesn't. LOTS of kids of ALL races with 'PERFECT' credentials get rejected all the time from all kinds of PRIVATE schools. A quick perusal of CD around march will confirm that yearly.

Also there is an assumption that Asian students dont benefit from holistic admissions themselves when they absolutely do. Not every Asian student in the Ivy league is a Mensa scholar.

At the end of the day, the Ivy league schools don't HAVE to admit anybody for any reason. They can literally pull reasons to admit or not admit kids out of the air, all they want. You know why? Because they are PRIVATE schools. They can absolutely do that. Its legal. They've checked.

[UnfairPark]

Originally Posted by BLDSoon

We can agree to disagree.

I have to say though, this "we arent admitted enough" complaint smacks of greed and entitlement of the highest order. As if having high scores somehow entitles you to admission. It doesn't. LOTS of kids of ALL races with 'PERFECT' credentials get rejected all the time from all kinds of PRIVATE schools. A quick perusal of CD around march will confirm that yearly.

Also there is an assumption that Asian students dont benefit from holistic admissions themselves when they absolutely do. Not every Asian student in the Ivy league is a Mensa scholar.

At the end of the day, the Ivy league schools don't HAVE to admit anybody for any reason. They can literally pull reasons to admit or not admit kids out of the air, all they want. You know why? Because they are PRIVATE schools. They can absolutely do that. Its legal. They've checked.

It is as legal as a restaurant owner's right to not serve food to more than two African American and transgender folks each day.

[BLDSoon]

Originally Posted by UnfairPark

It is as legal as a restaurant owner's right to not serve food to more than two African American and transgender folks each day.

Yeah, that's totally the same thing...

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by UnfairPark

I agree, we are already falling behind in research and innovation so why bother with academic merit. In fact, I recommend as social engineering quotas serves us so well, try it in athletic as well. Asians are extremely underrepresented in collegial athletics, specially football. Radical i know ... but just a thought.

Jews too, you know. I don't think it's as big of an issue as it used to be, but anti-Jewish bias in Ivy League admissions was rampant not all that long ago.

[UnfairPark]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

Jews too, you know. I don't think it's as big of an issue as it used to be, but anti-Jewish bias in Ivy League admissions was rampant not all that long ago.

Yup. History keeps repeating itself and then we complain that China and India are getting ahead of us, Russia is cyber invading us and Rocket Man is threatening with nukes. Just treat all American children equally, anyone born here is a native American. We cant afford to divide and discriminate between our children on basis of where their great grand father was born or which imaginary god their parents make them pray to.

[BLDSoon]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

Jews too, you know. I don't think it's as big of an issue as it used to be, but anti-Jewish bias in Ivy League admissions was rampant not all that long ago.

I think we can say Anti-jew attitudes were rampant back then...period. Anti-black attitudes were and still are rampant. Anti-Irish attitudes were rampant at some point too as are the anti-mexican ones that seem to recycle every so many decades.

Those attitudes have nothing to do with keeping a balanced student body and have a everything to do with racism and anti-semitism. They were not about to have a usable percentage of those groups due to attitudes at that time. That's their history to grapple with and is not the issue in this discussion.

This discussion is about a hyper-competitive group that cannot handle losing.(That group does not encompass all Asians either. Most Asian students do not attend Ivy League schools and many that do think these claims are absurd.)

If they lose, then it must be the system. Forget the fact that large numbers of caucasian, Hispanic, International, and everything in between students suffer the same fate every year. No, its not fair, cause they are special so they 'should' be allowed in because their perfect scores trump whatever educational mission the PRIVATE schools set for themselves. They aced the tests, show them to their dorm room.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Everyone cant get in. And yes that means everyone including those that qualify.

ETA: I'm willing to bet Caucasian kids (of whatever religion) get rejected far more than any other group from the Ivies in the name of 'balance'. For the group that benefits the most from this to sue/complain about it is hilarity.

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by UnfairPark

Yup. History keeps repeating itself and then we complain that China and India are getting ahead of us, Russia is cyber invading us and Rocket Man is threatening with nukes. Just treat all American children equally, anyone born here is a native American. We cant afford to divide and discriminate between our children on basis of where their great grand father was born or which imaginary god their parents make them pray to.

It's not quite the same thing...American graduates are facing a tougher job market than in all of our lifetimes due to mounting student debt and foreign "freshers" who will work for far less (and are often not nearly as burdened by debt).


I don't think you can really compare historical anti-Semitism in US university admissions to the threat posed to our kids' futures by mass immigration and globalization.

[Bp25]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

It's not quite the same thing...American graduates are facing a tougher job market than in all of our lifetimes due to mounting student debt and foreign "freshers" who will work for far less (and are often not nearly as burdened by debt).


I don't think you can really compare historical anti-Semitism in US university admissions to the threat posed to our kids' futures by mass immigration and globalization.

Then fix the student debt problem. Make it so that whoever has the merit and willingness to study can attend an university without a student loan, like other countries do. If you don't allow qualified people to come in and compete for the jobs, the jobs will go to them.

[MKDFW]

Originally Posted by BLDSoon

I dont see it as a bias. The Ivy's recognized a disparity and attempted to fix it. Otherwise we all know their entire freshman classes would comprise of legacies and Asians.


Universities have different goals than K-12 schools. Diversity actually does serve more than just a political purpose for them especially at schools where money is no object. So what that means is many qualified Asian students cannot get into the Ivies.(Ironically due to the fact that so many of them qualify). That said, they are still the largest minority group in any Ivies or top academic schools of any sort by far. They really shouldn't complain much.

What these new admission policies may mean for Asian parents is it may be time to diversify the goals they have for their children. Radical i know... but just a thought.

Originally Posted by BLDSoon

If we are falling behind in research and innovation College/University isnt the place to fix that. Thats a K-12 problem that no-one seems in a big hurry to fix. While we are arguing about evolution and whether the earth is flat, the rest of the developed world is drenching their kids in science of all disciplines.

Also you are implying that the kids that ARE admitted in lieu of 1000 Asian freshmen with perfect SAT scores aren't qualified to attend? You would be wrong. They may not have perfect scores on their SAT's but they are every inch as promising if not more for reasons outside of how well they scored on a test.

And I'm pretty certain you of all people know there is a huge difference between admitting high performing students to a university and recruiting athletes.

Education isnt simply a matter of academic ability for petes sake.

ETA: Also anecdotes are fine and dandy but the numbers don't support the 'admissions discrimination against Asians' claim.

Originally Posted by BLDSoon

We can agree to disagree.

I have to say though, this "we arent admitted enough" complaint smacks of greed and entitlement of the highest order. As if having high scores somehow entitles you to admission. It doesn't. LOTS of kids of ALL races with 'PERFECT' credentials get rejected all the time from all kinds of PRIVATE schools. A quick perusal of CD around march will confirm that yearly.

Also there is an assumption that Asian students dont benefit from holistic admissions themselves when they absolutely do. Not every Asian student in the Ivy league is a Mensa scholar.

At the end of the day, the Ivy league schools don't HAVE to admit anybody for any reason. They can literally pull reasons to admit or not admit kids out of the air, all they want. You know why? Because they are PRIVATE schools. They can absolutely do that. Its legal. They've checked.

Originally Posted by BLDSoon

I think we can say Anti-jew attitudes were rampant back then...period. Anti-black attitudes were and still are rampant. Anti-Irish attitudes were rampant at some point too as are the anti-mexican ones that seem to recycle every so many decades.

Those attitudes have nothing to do with keeping a balanced student body and have a everything to do with racism and anti-semitism. They were not about to have a usable percentage of those groups due to attitudes at that time. That's their history to grapple with and is not the issue in this discussion.

This discussion is about a hyper-competitive group that cannot handle losing.(That group does not encompass all Asians either. Most Asian students do not attend Ivy League schools and many that do think these claims are absurd.)

If they lose, then it must be the system. Forget the fact that large numbers of caucasian, Hispanic, International, and everything in between students suffer the same fate every year. No, its not fair, cause they are special so they 'should' be allowed in because their perfect scores trump whatever educational mission the PRIVATE schools set for themselves. They aced the tests, show them to their dorm room.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. Everyone cant get in. And yes that means everyone including those that qualify.

ETA: I'm willing to bet Caucasian kids (of whatever religion) get rejected far more than any other group from the Ivies in the name of 'balance'. For the group that benefits the most from this to sue/complain about it is hilarity.

What exactly did these Asians do to you to cloud your judgement so much?

[UnfairPark]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

It's not quite the same thing...American graduates are facing a tougher job market than in all of our lifetimes due to mounting student debt and foreign "freshers" who will work for far less (and are often not nearly as burdened by debt).


I don't think you can really compare historical anti-Semitism in US university admissions to the threat posed to our kids' futures by mass immigration and globalization.

Yesterday's discrimination is today's history. Today's discrimination will make tomorrow's history. By the way, I'm not talking about "freshers" or "stale", talking about discrimination between legal American born children, every new born has equal rights, regardless of who their parents are.