National Merit Semifinalists 2018 (Murphy, Happy: living, floor, approval)

[synchronicity]

Originally Posted by jiping

That's correct.
The average SAT score at Plano West Senior High School was 1754/2400, while the average SAT score at Carroll Senior High School was 1748/2400.

However, like I've mentioned, average means nothing. They are one of the garbage data in today's information age.
TTU/UNT has average SAT score of 1650, and UTD has average SAT score of 1850.
So average Plano West and Carroll students with 1750 SAT will be admitted to TTU/UNT, and UTD if they are lucky.
1750/2400 SAT, and in other word, a 75% percentile among all SAT examinees, gets you nowhere beyond that.

Understandably, people spend $$$$$ in good ISD or good private schools want more than UTD.
Great schools like Duke, for example, has average SAT score of 2250 (25th percentile is 2130, 75th percentile is 2370). Average For Rice is 2200.
That translates to 99.0 (97.0-99.9) percentile among all SAT examinees.

See? Only Top 3% (Top 1% for those who doesn't have quota) may be relevant here, when you are targeting at great colleges. How other 97% performs have very little to do with you.
I would argue even the Spelling Bee Semifinalists gives more insight than average SAT/ACT.

I'm not even sure how to possibly answer this. You're not making any sense.

Of course SAT averages at top colleges are going to be much higher than averages at any open enrollment public high school. Everyone knows this. So what? And of course, attending Carroll or Plano West or Highland Park or wherever will not mystically convert a "somewhat above average" student into an Ivy Leaguer, and there isn't an open enrollment public in existence filled with potential Ivy Leaguers. So I have no idea what point you're trying to make other than somehow we should all focus almost exclusively on NMSF, which is just "people who scored REALLY well on the prelim test to the SAT."

Besides, if you think %age NMSF is the be-all and end-all for some weird reason, then for many of the last several years, among open enrollment schools, Flower Mound dominated, not Plano West. So should all the gunning-for-Ivy students have migrated there or something?

[walker1977]

Makes no sense that someone who has goals for their kid and so adamantly cheerleads that their school is the best would then say PSAT is of no importance. If your child wants to go to a top notch school it does matter as elite/Ivy league schools compete against each other to get these kids especially when all other things are equal. To say that most parents in Southlake don't care about this is either false or an indictment on the competitiveness of the school. My guess is the former.

[UnfairPark]

Originally Posted by walker1977

Makes no sense that someone who has goals for their kid and so adamantly cheerleads that their school is the best would then say PSAT is of no importance. If your child wants to go to a top notch school it does matter as elite/Ivy league schools compete against each other to get these kids especially when all other things are equal. To say that most parents in Southlake don't care about this is either false or an indictment on the competitiveness of the school. My guess is the former.

Exactly. First, PSAT and SAT prep is basically similar in needing math, English, analytical ability and test taking skills. If one can’t make NMSF cut off for their state, scoring near perfect on SAT is less likely as well. Second, even if someone doesn’t care bout $100k++ in scholarships then at least they would want National Merit award on their elite college application, it is a very competitive sport.

[jiping]

Originally Posted by synchronicity

I'm not even sure how to possibly answer this. You're not making any sense.

Of course SAT averages at top colleges are going to be much higher than averages at any open enrollment public high school. Everyone knows this. So what? And of course, attending Carroll or Plano West or Highland Park or wherever will not mystically convert a "somewhat above average" student into an Ivy Leaguer, and there isn't an open enrollment public in existence filled with potential Ivy Leaguers. So I have no idea what point you're trying to make other than somehow we should all focus almost exclusively on NMSF, which is just "people who scored REALLY well on the prelim test to the SAT."

We can agree to disagree.

Open enrollment public schools, are after all, public schools. They won't boost an above average student to Ivy Leaguer. They focus on "No Child Left Behind".
The schools, the group of students and the peer pressure, can however generate a special atmosphere, where it may drive some top 3% students to 1%-2%, or in some other cases, discourage and drag top some 1%-2% students down to 3%.
The slight difference, may determine whether a top student can make it to the 1% NMSF statewide cut off, or whether he/she can make it to Ivy League which requires top 1% nationwide.

PSAT/NMSF, in my opinion, is a more of a test to elite education (for not only the high school but the whole feeder), than a prelim test to SAT.
I'm also interested in how many students scored really well in spelling bee, or any other test including the real SAT, but you need to show me the data only for top tier students who have a real shot to the Ivy League.

[UnfairPark]

Fun fact:

In 2017, there were 15,000 National Merit Finalists while roughly 50,000 were valedictorians in USA.

[kyam11]

Originally Posted by walker1977

Makes no sense that someone who has goals for their kid and so adamantly cheerleads that their school is the best would then say PSAT is of no importance. If your child wants to go to a top notch school it does matter as elite/Ivy league schools compete against each other to get these kids especially when all other things are equal. To say that most parents in Southlake don't care about this is either false or an indictment on the competitiveness of the school. My guess is the former.

Of no importance? Never said that. What I said is that I know of no parent out of hundreds that focuses on their kids doing well on the PSAT. Every single parent focuses on the SAT. Most will have their kids take the PSAT to see where they stand while I have no doubt many who make the NMSF likely focus on preparing for the PSAT. I have yet to see any parent who we know in Southlake put their kids through any type of preparation to take the PSAT. The PSAT is simply an additional tool for parents to get their kids prepared for the SAT. My oldest will take the PSAT next year. He will do no preparation to take the PSAT. I have no doubt if I started now to prepare him for the PSAT he would/could do better on the PSAT thus a higher chance of NMSF. No desire to do so.

If you want to get your kids into the top schools make sure they are good at sports and get good grades and test scores. You then do not have to go through the standard admission process like everyone else does for schools like the Ivies.

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by cordata

33% of US Presidents were born in Virginia or Ohio. If you want your child to be a strong leader and possible US President you should move to one of those two states.

Left-handed people are also overrepresented in US presidential history (particularly within my lifetime). So you should make your kids be left-handed as well.


How Many Left-Handed Presidents Has the US Had? (with pictures)

[MurphyPl1]

Or men. 100% track record.

[EDS_]

Originally Posted by kyam11

There is nothing in there that says they try that hard. They incorporate what is in the test into the curriculum which makes sense since they are basic concepts.

Again thanks for being jealous of the best district overall in DFW. My son is not preparing for the PSAT, but preparing for the SAT. He was asked to take it in the past 2 weeks. I guarantee I know more Carroll parents than you do and I don't know 1 who cares about the PSAT. All care about the SAT or ACT.

BTW he is in 7th grade and no this is not a joke.

Responding to several points you've made across this thread.......

1. PSAT and SAT prep have nearly 100% overlap ergo studying for one is essentially studying for the other.

2. Unless you are prepared to go to war with SLC High School your kid will take the PSAT and he will prep for it to some degree. Any kid bright enough to take the SAT in 7th will be queued up by the school to take the PSAT later.

3. Among the top quintile of academic performers taking the SAT early is not unusual. Both my kids did. Roughly a 1/3 of my nieces and nephews did as well.

4. Noting #3 don't gloat until you know your kid's results. A good number of young kids get smashed by the SAT because they are not used to performing under time pressure. Gloat if your kid makes maybe an 1100 or better or is asked to take an SAT subject test due to his SAT score.

5. Possibly I'm misunderstanding your point about athletics and college admissions. With that stipulation, across the NCAA far more athletes are full academic qualifiers than not - many schools offer no academic breaks for athletes at all and just the Ives either. Everyone has to apply and be accepted and athletes have to complete the NCAA Clearinghouse (it's called something else now) resume/bio/application/qualifier status page which is a major pain.

Trust me we've through all of this, the academic and the athletic, twice.

[UnfairPark]

If your kid is really bright, he may ace PSAT and SAT just by taking few tests on College Board or Khan Academy. Not all kids who ace these tests are prep center zombie nor all prepped kid become NMSF or score above 99th percentile on SAT it but it sure improves your scores compared to walking in cold, which only works for very high IQ mathy folks with good grasp on language skills as well.