Affordable Housing : Winds of change in Plano (Dallas, McKinney: apartment complex, condos)

[Xalistiq]

Originally Posted by TheOverdog

It'd be different if Plano had been built to be some exclusive city, like Southlake or Highland Park, but it never was. It always had aspirational plans to be a large-business centered suburb - I mean that's why they built Preston so large and why they helped build six lane roads to EDS and JC Penny Campuses back when there was nothing out there.

Say what you will about the exclusivity, or lack thereof, of West Plano but in 2004 the economically disadvantaged student population at Plano West and Shepton High were under 5%. In addition to a median household income of $105,000 in 1999, or $187,000 in 2023 inflation-adjusted dollars, 75093 absolutely was damn near uniformly exclusive.

Today it is not, thanks to all of the apartment developments, surge in low income students and a stagnant median household income.

[biafra4life]

Originally Posted by Xalistiq

Say what you will about the exclusivity, or lack thereof, of West Plano but in 2004 the economically disadvantaged student population at Plano West and Shepton High were under 5%. In addition to a median household income of $105,000 in 1999, or $187,000 in 2023 inflation-adjusted dollars, 75093 absolutely was damn near uniformly exclusive.

Today it is not, thanks to all of the apartment developments, surge in low income students and a stagnant median household income.

I dont think this phenomenon is going away anytime soon. As long as the demand for Texas in general and Collin County in particular remains white hot as it is currently, then every square inch will be developed one way or another. For most parts it will be single family homes, but where those are not a good fit, then apartments will be the next best option. To avoid the decline you mention then all of Collin County would have to have made the same decision that Southlake, Lucas and Sunnyvale made 40 plus years ago, to go to full acre lot minimums and no apartments. Pretty much most of Collin County said no to that. Even Prosper which had initally been trumpeted as being primarily large lots, has succumbed and now you see the same postage stamp lots that predominate here. It's only a matter of time before more apartments pop up over there. The financial boost would be just too hard to ignore for a city like Prosper that doesn't have any corporate/industrial/retail tax base to lean on.

[Leonard123]

Originally Posted by biafra4life

Probably too little too late for Plano. Most of the land is already developed.
The bigger issue for not just Plano but Collin County in general is the fact that the price of the land and the cost of building homes here has skyrocketed just like everything else these days. So for builders, affordable housing in Collin County is going to be a money loser for them. Their profit margins would be far higher with the typical mcmansions starting at $600K and so on. Even here in Wylie where I live, it used to be starter home central. But now you will be in a bidding war for anything under $300K, and that's for pre existing housing, not new construction.

You do realize Anna, Melissa, Princeton, Lavon, and east McKinney are in Collin County? Sometimes, people seem to talk as though the county's borders don't even include the bulk of it, including the county seat. You will find NOTHING BUT entry level housing in these areas. There are no McMansion developments east of Central north of Fairview. Wylie is largely built out, and what's there is entry-level housing at $500K+ prices.

Just recently, there have been bidding wars on anything under $400K in McKinney. I wouldn't count on that to last though.

Originally Posted by jpushiys

Yes, no question its too late for Plano. Plano planted the seeds to its eventual decline when every single multi-family zone was built out as apartments.

But Frisco, Allen, McKinney and others have a chance to learn and correct course. It took a long time for Plano citizens and city council members to wake up but they have started to make the right noises now.

For everyone else in North Texas - do you know where your city councilor stands on this matter ? You have a chance to ask and make your vote count during the upcoming May 6 election.

They actually don't have a chance. Mckinney citizens voted resoundingly for apartment mania with that hideous mayor and city council they re-elected 2 years ago, and now almost the entire remainder of McKinney will be apartments per all the current zoning approvals. They also opted for low income apartments. That Craig Ranch development has been cursed from day one!

Allen is virtually in the same boat as Plano, and all that's left are a few thin strips directly along the major highways. In fairness, they did make a lot of those apartments for 55+ residents which is something all McMansion owners may be wanting before too long.

Frisco is built out too, and what's planned now are a lot of big apartment complexes and a few grocery stores. They'll get mixed in with the $1M+ townhomes and $2M+ homes at that Fields development. Frisco buyers have been happily plopping down millions to live next to apartments for years. I guess it beats life in New Delhi or Calcutta.

Originally Posted by Xalistiq

Say what you will about the exclusivity, or lack thereof, of West Plano but in 2004 the economically disadvantaged student population at Plano West and Shepton High were under 5%. In addition to a median household income of $105,000 in 1999, or $187,000 in 2023 inflation-adjusted dollars, 75093 absolutely was damn near uniformly exclusive.

Today it is not, thanks to all of the apartment developments, surge in low income students and a stagnant median household income.

Dense retail and corporate development will draw apartments. Apartments make sense in Plano. Where do you suggest single workers live? They have no use for a McMansion and lack the dual income needed to buy one. What's worse is when places like McKinney that don't have all that retail and corporate development go on an apartment spree.

[Grainraiser]

Originally Posted by biafra4life

Probably too little too late for Plano. Most of the land is already developed.
The bigger issue for not just Plano but Collin County in general is the fact that the price of the land and the cost of building homes here has skyrocketed just like everything else these days. So for builders, affordable housing in Collin County is going to be a money loser for them. Their profit margins would be far higher with the typical mcmansions starting at $600K and so on. Even here in Wylie where I live, it used to be starter home central. But now you will be in a bidding war for anything under $300K, and that's for pre existing housing, not new construction.

Funny you say that. I moved to Mesquite in 1996 and pretty much my whole subdivison was made up of starter homes 2,200 sqft or less. For years I complained about the city not building larger homes and losing residents to Rockwall and Forney. Fast forward to know were they are to complete 3,500 homes within the next two years. It appears nothing will be smaller than 2,400 sqft and less than 400k. I never thought I would see the day that this would happen in Mesquite,

[jpushiys]

Originally Posted by Leonard123

Mckinney citizens voted resoundingly for apartment mania with that hideous mayor and city council they re-elected 2 years ago, and now almost the entire remainder of McKinney will be apartments per all the current zoning approvals. They also opted for low income apartments. That Craig Ranch development has been cursed from day one!

Were these zoning approvals on the ballot ? Or did McKinney citizens vote to elect city council members who then made these decisions ? I feel its unusual for zoning changes to be on the ballot (though I may be wrong), and its more likely that the council made these decisions. Even when an area is zoned high-density, that does not automatically mean apartments. The actual type of residences on a particular area depends on city development plans which will have details on if the area is being considered for apartments vs. townhomes/condos etc.

I can't emphasize enough that us citizens have more power than we think and we can - if need be - organize to influence city direction or even vote out council members who are out of touch with what people need.

[DallasComet]

Originally Posted by Xalistiq

Are you time lapse challenged?

I clearly stated that I graduated from Plano West nearly twenty years ago (2004). The heroin epidemic in central Plano was in the early/mid-1980s, which was almost 40 years ago. I am far from a moron, having graduated from high school at age 16.

Time will tell what transpires of Plano schools. If they can hold onto their ever-declining white student populations and relatively constant Asian populations, Plano schools will continue to perform at a high level. If low-income student enrollment at Plano schools continues its upward trajectory, there is no way Plano schools will retain the competitive edge they have now.

You revert to personal attacks because on a subliminal level, you know what I state is true. But in today’s hyper woke society, any facts which call into question the status quo must be silenced and challenged. I won’t be silenced and will speak my mind freely, regardless of what you or anyone else thinks.

The Plano suicides were in the early 1980s. The heroin epidemic was mid-1990s.

[LocalPlanner]

Wow, shocking California-type attitudes expressed in this thread. If you want to turn DFW into CA, please just up stakes and move there. Texas is for residential development freedom, not outlawing most residential development.

[TheOverdog]

You revert to personal attacks because on a subliminal level, you know what I state is true. But in today’s hyper woke society, any facts which call into question the status quo must be silenced and challenged. I won’t be silenced and will speak my mind freely, regardless of what you or anyone else thinks.

LOL. Everything you say is the exact opposite of what actually happens. You just want what you believe to be true. Should have spent some more time in school.

[MurphyPl1]

Originally Posted by jpushiys

Were these zoning approvals on the ballot ? Or did McKinney citizens vote to elect city council members who then made these decisions ? I feel its unusual for zoning changes to be on the ballot (though I may be wrong), and its more likely that the council made these decisions. Even when an area is zoned high-density, that does not automatically mean apartments. The actual type of residences on a particular area depends on city development plans which will have details on if the area is being considered for apartments vs. townhomes/condos etc.

I can't emphasize enough that us citizens have more power than we think and we can - if need be - organize to influence city direction or even vote out council members who are out of touch with what people need.

Zoning won't be on a ballot because it affects property owners rights. That's why there's a serious of notices and hearings and the Council will vote. But it's not OK in Texas to have majority rule on your property.

[NoClueWho]

Originally Posted by Xalistiq

I resent articles like the one I referenced for sensationalizing this phenomena through the lens of “racism” and “white flight”. Certainly racism could be and probably is a factor in many instances of “white flight” and decaying communities, but it belies the fact that if people are moving away from low income families (who are disproportionately black and Hispanic), perhaps it’s because of the undeniably negative impact that these people have on a community in terms of crime, schools, property values, and quality of life in general.

Those of us who wish not to live around these people should not be vilified by acknowledging these realities and wanting our communities to remain uniformly affluent.

The thing is middle class and upper middle class Black and Hispanic people don't want to live around lower class ones who bring crime, worsen schools, and lower property values either.

Also, Collin County has had to build more APARTMENTS in recent years and a lot of landlords bought up properties there and are renting them out, which is why more economically disadvantaged people and families who previously couldn't afford to live in Plano, Frisco, and other parts of Collin County are there now.