Affordable Housing : Winds of change in Plano (Dallas, Denton: apartments, house)

[DabOnEm]

Originally Posted by biafra4life

I dont think this phenomenon is going away anytime soon. As long as the demand for Texas in general and Collin County in particular remains white hot as it is currently, then every square inch will be developed one way or another. For most parts it will be single family homes, but where those are not a good fit, then apartments will be the next best option. To avoid the decline you mention then all of Collin County would have to have made the same decision that Southlake, Lucas and Sunnyvale made 40 plus years ago, to go to full acre lot minimums and no apartments. Pretty much most of Collin County said no to that. Even Prosper which had initally been trumpeted as being primarily large lots, has succumbed and now you see the same postage stamp lots that predominate here. It's only a matter of time before more apartments pop up over there. The financial boost would be just too hard to ignore for a city like Prosper that doesn't have any corporate/industrial/retail tax base to lean on.

Collin County wouldn't survive if the Southlake model was applied. Where would all the retail/service workers live? Businesses were already having a tough time finding workers before they finished a bunch of the apartments up there, so imagine what it would have been like had there been no apartments or low income housing. Southlake can get away with it because there are several affordable cities around it, and it doesn't take up too much area in the grand scheme of things.

Also there is more developable land in a place like Plano than one thinks. So many suburban style office parks with huge green lawns and parking lots or the several shopping centers that can be turned into mixed-use (I believe City of Plano has plans for both of these types). The only safe areas are single family neighborhoods. anything else can be redeveloped pretty easily if zoning allows.

[Leonard123]

Originally Posted by jpushiys

Were these zoning approvals on the ballot ? Or did McKinney citizens vote to elect city council members who then made these decisions ? I feel its unusual for zoning changes to be on the ballot (though I may be wrong), and its more likely that the council made these decisions. Even when an area is zoned high-density, that does not automatically mean apartments. The actual type of residences on a particular area depends on city development plans which will have details on if the area is being considered for apartments vs. townhomes/condos etc.

I can't emphasize enough that us citizens have more power than we think and we can - if need be - organize to influence city direction or even vote out council members who are out of touch with what people need.

The mayor and city council members actively campaigned on bringing in more apartments and affordable housing while their opponents campaigned on keeping them out.

In general though, this mayor is a nightmare on every score, and I cannot fathom how or why so many people voted for him. His entire attitude ought to turn off anyone with half a brain. The same goes for most of the city council. I've been looking to get out for a long time but can't decide where to go.

[Leonard123]

Originally Posted by LocalPlanner

Wow, shocking California-type attitudes expressed in this thread. If you want to turn DFW into CA, please just up stakes and move there. Texas is for residential development freedom, not outlawing most residential development.

I doubt most people in Texas could afford to move there. I would love to see something similar to Irvine in north Texas!

[TheOverdog]

I doubt most people in Texas could afford to move there. I would love to see something similar to Irvine in north Texas!

Everything you say about McKinney was actually true in 2012, when I was searching for a home. Brand new homes north of Virginia Parkway -most the front doors not even locked, most of them grafitti-ed up and slightly trashed indoors (holes in drywall - not terrible). Housing hunting was really easy. They were like ~$120k.



The Alcatel/Nortel crash had over 10% unemployment in the north suburbs, and something like 7-10% of houses in the area were abandoned. I didn't want to live in McKinney (again) because it was so far north, so we just toured those houses for fun. I had lived in a brand new house on Virgina Parkway at the time that my roommate had purchased for $125k a few years before, so I knew I didn't want to commute that far.



Plano was no different - most of the houses we checked in central Plano were also abandoned but most were not grafittied. Also most were unlocked/barely locked, so back doors were open/windows smashed out.



My wife and I had a budget under $200k, and we considered buying two houses for less than that, one in Central Plano and one near downtown (which was also mostly abandoned), but ultimately decided on just one larger house. We also looked at a 4000 sq ft house that was $199k west of Ohio, but decided it was too much work to fix up.


So think about that: for a period of several years, two earners at minimum wage could afford to buy a least one home in Plano. So you have to be a bit more careful about who is causing problems/who is the potential 'low income' people in schools.

[Xalistiq]

Originally Posted by Leonard123

Frisco is built out too, and what's planned now are a lot of big apartment complexes and a few grocery stores. They'll get mixed in with the $1M+ townhomes and $2M+ homes at that Fields development. Frisco buyers have been happily plopping down millions to live next to apartments for years. I guess it beats life in New Delhi or Calcutta.

The demographic change in Frisco is astonishing. In less than 20 years, it has increasingly become an Indian commune. I have heard whites and other races make extremely disparaging comments about Indians, i.e., not wanting to live near them, and/or moving out of neighborhoods where Indians congregate.

I recognize that Indian culture is very different from ours, but generally, they are high income, hard working, do well in school, and don’t bring down property values. One of my very best friends in high school was Indian and so I spent a lot of time with the Desi crowd and their work ethic, family life, and sense of community is amazing. Certainly much more so than the rich white friends I had during my tenure at Plano West.

Originally Posted by Leonard123

Dense retail and corporate development will draw apartments. Apartments make sense in Plano. Where do you suggest single workers live? They have no use for a McMansion and lack the dual income needed to buy one. What's worse is when places like McKinney that don't have all that retail and corporate development go on an apartment spree.

Plano was an idyllic place twenty years ago. It was less crowded and actually felt like a suburb rather than just an extension of Dallas. One never encountered “riff raff” (even on the slightly rougher central and east sides) because they had no reason to even drive through Plano. Due to its proximity to Dallas and the amount of corporate growth Plano has seen, these changes were inevitable, but have completely changed the cultural landscape of the city.

[rabbit33]

Originally Posted by Xalistiq

...Plano was an idyllic place twenty years ago. It was less crowded and actually felt like a suburb rather than just an extension of Dallas. ....

Hardly "idyllic".

I remember back then, the (morbid) joke amongst actual Dallasites was "Well, if I had to live in Plano I'd want to be on heroin too."

[Xalistiq]

Originally Posted by rabbit33

Hardly "idyllic".

I remember back then, the (morbid) joke amongst actual Dallasites was "Well, if I had to live in Plano I'd want to be on heroin too."

Maybe for some. For me, it was idyllic. I lived in a bubble.

[20Hope20]

Plano and Frisco are huge, there are going to be affluent bubbles like Willow bend, Avignon, Shoal Creek, Hills of Prestonwood etc. and there'll be affordable bubbles on east side and central Plano. Same in Frisco. McKinney and Allen are building lots of apartments so its not going to be that different there either.

Prosper is still homogeneously affluent and we've to see if they'll follow Southlake model or add more apartments to be aligned with rest of the county.

[ThomasCrown]

Originally Posted by 20Hope20

Prosper is still homogeneously affluent and we've to see if they'll follow Southlake model or add more apartments to be aligned with rest of the county.

Prosper's east side isn't building apartments. But, McKinney is building apartments all along our borders, but being serviced by Prosper ISD, not theirs. That's something we're not happy about at all.

[DabOnEm]

Originally Posted by ThomasCrown

Prosper's east side isn't building apartments. But, McKinney is building apartments all along our borders, but being serviced by Prosper ISD, not theirs. That's something we're not happy about at all.

well that person taking your order in the drive thru needs a place to live and their kids are mandated by law to go to school. where else are they going to go?