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The top 100 students at UT Arlington are .25% of the college-bound population that chooses UT Arlington. But UT Arlington comprises perhaps 10% of the Metro DFW population attending a university.
So the top 100 students at UT arlington comprise the top .025% of the DFW college population.
When you're dealing with percentages that small, the differences among individuals become statistically insignificant. The difference between an individual from the top .025% of the population versus one that is from the top .015%, or the top .005% even, is undiscernable. Random variation is much more important at that minute level.
So how do I figure this out? When I took one standardized test at UNT, some years ago, my score was the second-highest in the history of the school.
On an allied subject, what is the difference between a DFW student who is selected by Harvard and attends, versus one who is selected by Harvard, but goes to UT Arlington. The one study I know of that tried to measure this concluded there was no statistical significance in their life outcomes as regards earning power.
ugh, why do I even bother?
See, the fuzzy math you did here? Let's see if we can actually measure it, with output. If the top 100 students are "possibly close" (your words, not mine) at Harvard and UTA, then we would be able to measure the results of those students.
The most objective set of data that I chose (based on being independent and easy to google) is Rhodes Scholars. If your assertion that you made in this post is even close to being true, then one would expect the number of Rhodes Scholars to be roughly the same.
Sadly, it's not even close. Maybe we can also expand it to Truman Scholarships and Fulbright Scholarships....and it's not even close again. The wide disparity between these suggests that your idea that "the top 100 are possibly close" as false, and could even be used to justify the claim that Harvard provides a better education.
Now, if you want to stick to your opinion that the top 100 are equal, stop playing with funny numbers, and let's try to come up with MEASURABLE data that says otherwise. Stop conjecturing and philosophizing. If you want to disprove my theory, come up with evidence that does so. Ideas from your head are not data.
See, the fuzzy math you did here? Let's see if we can actually measure it, with output. If the top 100 students are "possibly close" (your words, not mine) at Harvard and UTA, then we would be able to measure the results of those students.
The most objective set of data that I chose (based on being independent and easy to google) is Rhodes Scholars. If your assertion that you made in this post is even close to being true, then one would expect the number of Rhodes Scholars to be roughly the same.
Sadly, it's not even close. Maybe we can also expand it to Truman Scholarships and Fulbright Scholarships....and it's not even close again. The wide disparity between these suggests that your idea that "the top 100 are possibly close" as false, and could even be used to justify the claim that Harvard provides a better education.
Now, if you want to stick to your opinion that the top 100 are equal, stop playing with funny numbers, and let's try to come up with MEASURABLE data that says otherwise. Stop conjecturing and philosophizing. If you want to disprove my theory, come up with evidence that does so. Ideas from your head are not data.
Where did you get your data about the top 100 students at UT Arlington and the top 100 students at Harvard?
I feel pretty confident thinking that for the top 100 people out of 29,000 UT Arlington students and the top 100 Harvard students, the differences are not statistically significant, due to the small size of the samples. Any difference will be just a coincidence, or will be due to cultural differences between Massachusets and Texas.
If you disagree, please provide some standard statistical measures to demonstrate it.
Where did you get your data about the top 100 students at UT Arlington and the top 100 students at Harvard?
I feel pretty confident thinking that the top 100 people out of 29,000 UT Arlington and the top 100 Harvard students, the differences are not statistically significant.
If you disagree, please provide some standard statistical measures to demonstrate it.
you say you feel confident- so that means it's your opinion. the fact that you propose that the top 100 of UTA matches up to harvard's suggests that conventional thinking is that top 100 UTA <= harvard.
why does "our side" have to provide anything? you present arguments that are opinions and cannot be confirmed.
you say you feel confident- so that means it's your opinion. the fact that you propose that the top 100 of UTA matches up to harvard's suggests that conventional thinking is that top 100 UTA <= harvard.
why does "our side" have to provide anything? you present arguments that are opinions and cannot be confirmed.
It's just statistics 101.
If you take a completely random sample of a population, the sample can be small and completely useful.
In the case of the top 100 UTA students out of a population of 29,000, the sample is not random, in fact, it's extremely biased. Therefore, without statistical significance.
The samples of the 100 best from each population take such an extreme and unrepresentative slice of both populations that the differences between them are most likely to be coincidences.
Now if you took a random sample of 100 UTA students and compared it to a random sample of 100 Harvard students, you would see some significant differences.
There's another factor... the IQ of various parts of the population.
IQ scores are pretty reliable for people in the average range of IQ, say in the normal range between 80IQ and 120IQ. Most people fall within those limits and the scores are more predictable because of the large number of test takers that can be used to calibrate and validate the tests.
Now lets consider the 100 smartest people at UT Arlington.
Their measured IQ scores are likely to be very inaccurate, since the IQ test did not have very many people at those extreme ranges. The IQ test is like the speedometer of a car that goes up to 100 MPH, which is accurate enough 99.99% of the time, but the car is going a lot faster, 120 MPH, maybe 140 MPH. There's no way to tell, because the speed exceeds the measuring capability of the tool. The needle is pegged all the way to the right.
So, when you compare the IQ of the 100 smartest UT Arlington students to the IQ of the 100 smartest Harvard students, you don't really know if the results are accurate enough to have any meaning.
If we compare Rhodes Scholars, we're comparing the upper crust of both the Harvard and the UTA population.
According your fuzzy math, as we make the sample size smaller and smaller, the differences between UTA students and Harvard students would be more and more insignificant.
If this assertion is true, then a measurable output, such as Rhodes Scholars, would be equal. They're both bestowed upon extremely bright kids, by an independent committee, not affiliated with either university by a third party.
However, UTA students have NEVER won an Rhodes scholarship. NEVER EVER. Harvard has won 100+. This large disparity proves that your "statistics" are entirely worthless. We can do the same thing for Fulbright Scholars. We can do the same thing for Truman scholars. We can do the same thing for %acceptance in med school. We can do the same thing for graduation rate. We can do the same thing for every measurable output.
Yet, you can't prove with a SINGLE piece of evidence, your point. As such, I'm taking your points like I would take a 5-year-olds. Without any grounding in rational thought or evidence. You have no point. You can keep talking, but don't expect anyone to believe you. You are not being persuasive at all, and you haven't even proven your point that Dallas doesn't need an elite university.
Just because you ignore what I keep saying doesn't make it any less true. I'm still waiting for your xenophobic rant on foreign immigrants, btw. I bet that one is going to be a gem.
If we compare Rhodes Scholars, we're comparing the upper crust of both the Harvard and the UTA population.
According your fuzzy math, as we make the sample size smaller and smaller, the differences between UTA students and Harvard students would be more and more insignificant.
If this assertion is true, then a measurable output, such as Rhodes Scholars, would be equal. They're both bestowed upon extremely bright kids, by an independent committee, not affiliated with either university by a third party.
However, UTA students have NEVER won an Rhodes scholarship. NEVER EVER. Harvard has won 100+. This large disparity proves that your "statistics" are entirely worthless. We can do the same thing for Fulbright Scholars. We can do the same thing for Truman scholars. We can do the same thing for %acceptance in med school. We can do the same thing for graduation rate. We can do the same thing for every measurable output.
Yet, you can't prove with a SINGLE piece of evidence, your point. As such, I'm taking your points like I would take a 5-year-olds. Without any grounding in rational thought or evidence. You have no point. You can keep talking, but don't expect anyone to believe you. You are not being persuasive at all, and you haven't even proven your point that Dallas doesn't need an elite university.
Just because you ignore what I keep saying doesn't make it any less true. I'm still waiting for your xenophobic rant on foreign immigrants, btw. I bet that one is going to be a gem.
Nope, you can't quantify this to compare the top 100 UT A students to the top Harvard students.
Actually, the people who select for various scholarships, such as Rhodes, Fullbright, etc., are likely to be familiar with, and work more closely with, people in the US northeast states and its universities such as Harvard and Yale, than inteerior universities such as U T Arlington. There is a bias. And we assume this bias translates into success and influence in America? Really?
Plus, what were the scores of the top 100 students at Harvard? You don't know? Go jump in the lake.
Now that I think about it, it's pretty bizzare and weird that you imagine that your Fulbright people or others are supposed to be the authority over the attainment and qualification over the 300 million people of the United States.
Nope, you can't quantify this to compare the top 100 UT A students to the top Harvard students.
Actually, the people who select for various scholarships, such as Rhodes, Fullbright, etc., are likely to be familiar with, and work more closely with, people in the US northeast states and its universities such as Harvard and Yale, than inteerior universities such as U T Arlington. There is a bias. And we assume this bias translates into success and influence in America? Really?
Plus, what were the scores of the top 100 students at Harvard? You don't know? Go jump in the lake.
Give it up, fella. It's time to go to bed.
the original question was "value of an education" not, "success and influence in America"
once again, you state that bias exists, but you expect someone to believe it without sourcing it, providing any sort of paper supporting it, or a website saying that it's a common problem. I'm just supposed to believe it.
Scores of what for the top 100 students at Harvard? SAT scores? No- if I did, I would use those. I am sure that they would be higher than the top 100 SAT scores at UTA- I don't have a source for it (that's why I used Rhodes Scholars, it's an easy way to measure academic output), but you should just believe it, much how you expect me to believe your sources of bias.
You should learn how to argue persuasively. If you posit an argument, you back it up with supports. You're still not backing up anything with any sort of facts and data, after I have asked you four separate times to. You're just ignoring the question, like some politician. I have tried to answer every one of your issues, and you just back off your arguments that you can't support and pretend that I never said them.
I can't wait till you run for office. Good night, no hard feelings (really, this has been an interesting intellectual discussion, and I value you your commentary on other topics, just not on this one), and I look forward to debating you in other issues. I see no further value in this thread, so this is my last post. for real this time.
the original question was "value of an education" not, "success and influence in America"
once again, you state that bias exists, but you expect someone to believe it without sourcing it, providing any sort of paper supporting it, or a website saying that it's a common problem. I'm just supposed to believe it.
Scores of what for the top 100 students at Harvard? SAT scores? No- if I did, I would use those. I am sure that they would be higher than the top 100 SAT scores at UTA- I don't have a source for it (that's why I used Rhodes Scholars, it's an easy way to measure academic output), but you should just believe it, much how you expect me to believe your sources of bias.
You should learn how to argue persuasively. If you posit an argument, you back it up with supports. You're still not backing up anything with any sort of facts and data, after I have asked you four separate times to. You're just ignoring the question, like some politician. I have tried to answer every one of your issues, and you just back off your arguments that you can't support and pretend that I never said them.
I can't wait till you run for office. Good night, no hard feelings (really, this has been an interesting intellectual discussion, and I value you your commentary on other topics, just not on this one), and I look forward to debating you in other issues. I see no further value in this thread, so this is my last post. for real this time.
Cool it, guy, Just go to bed and relax.
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