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Yes, I've come to realize that many states back east have the same liquor law wierdness that we do. Maryland is another state that has virtually identical liquor laws to Colorado, but that hasn't stopped TJ's. As mentioned, PA and NJ are the same. Even NY has liquor law strangeness that hampers trader Joe's from selling wine (kind of counterintuitive, but true).
I find it kind of interesting that you consider it "liquor law weirdness" when the majority of states have almost identical laws to Colorado. When I hear "weirdness" or "strangeness" I usually think of something that is not the norm. Just sayin.
Personally I tend to be against the idea of grocery stores selling liquor for the simple reason that they are "grocery" stores, and having a large selection of alcoholic beverages, just takes a lot of valuable shelve space away from "groceries". Which is the thing that I usually go to a grocery store for.
I really don't see why if you need a bottle of wine with your dinner, it should be so hard for you to stop off a liquor store on the way home. Then there is the situation that if the state starts allowing chains to selling alcohol, that going to put a lot of small businesses out of business.
As someone who has lived in Indiana and Illinois (both allow booze in grocery stores) I can tell you that there are plenty of advantages
1) pricing is the biggest. A grocery store is a low margin place, and decent price booze can bring you into store AND still make the company a higher margin than butter or milk. Having to go to a liquor store always means a higher price. . .especially when compared to the buying power of sams club, costco, wal-mart, etc.
2) convenience - do not know about everyone else, but I do not feel the need to allocate extra time in my day visiting two stores when one will do.
3) Personally, as someone who used to work in consumer packaged goods, there is plenty of crap in a grocery store and I've never noticed that an item I wanted is missing because of a booze aisle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom
I find it kind of interesting that you consider it "liquor law weirdness" when the majority of states have almost identical laws to Colorado. When I hear "weirdness" or "strangeness" I usually think of something that is not the norm. Just sayin.
Personally I tend to be against the idea of grocery stores selling liquor for the simple reason that they are "grocery" stores, and having a large selection of alcoholic beverages, just takes a lot of valuable shelve space away from "groceries". Which is the thing that I usually go to a grocery store for.
I really don't see why if you need a bottle of wine with your dinner, it should be so hard for you to stop off a liquor store on the way home. Then there is the situation that if the state starts allowing chains to selling alcohol, that going to put a lot of small businesses out of business.
As someone who has lived in Indiana and Illinois (both allow booze in grocery stores) I can tell you that there are plenty of advantages
1) pricing is the biggest. A grocery store is a low margin place, and decent price booze can bring you into store AND still make the company a higher margin than butter or milk. Having to go to a liquor store always means a higher price. . .especially when compared to the buying power of sams club, costco, wal-mart, etc.
2) convenience - do not know about everyone else, but I do not feel the need to allocate extra time in my day visiting two stores when one will do.
3) Personally, as someone who used to work in consumer packaged goods, there is plenty of crap in a grocery store and I've never noticed that an item I wanted is missing because of a booze aisle.
Ahhh, but you're number 3 really brings home the point. Selection.
I've lived in several places, and frankly Colorado has some of the best liquor stores I've come across. Price is definitely a factor here (I have not found liquor to be significantly cheaper in Arizona or California), but SELECTION is a vast difference. Particularly in a state that prides itself on it's microbrews and other "boutique" alcoholic beverages.
At first, grocery stores selling liquor will look like a slam dunk, with everything you were ever looking for there...but over time, there would be a settling on the liquor that sells the most...and in this state particularly, the beer. That's going to leave you with Fat Tire, Sam Adams, and of course the standard cheap brews that even liquor stores rely a lot on.
BUT, as that happens, a lot of that revenue disappears from places willing to provide more variety and specialties even at some expense to themselves...BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY DO. People don't start good liquor stores *just* to make money, but ALSO because they want to provide people with something that they LIKE. It's why most of us would rather be working in a profession we enjoy...we don't mind a small sacrifice because a) we like what we're doing, and b) we've figured out how to do it and come out ahead.
Now maybe we don't come out AS far ahead as we could, but that's because there's more to life than JUST maximizing profit.
Big Box Grocery Stores largely exist for one reason...to maximize profit. Sure, some liquor stores would survive the "free market purge", but even they would end up having to use most of their space on those most popular items (regardless of quality) just to compete. That means CHOICE *decreases*.
Now look...that's a VAST oversimplification of the whole process. That's not to say there is not a way to make it work. But as it stands now, THAT is what I think most people are worried about when we talk about allowing grocery stores to sell full strength alcohol. If I go to Sam's Club in Arizona, I may not find Four Peaks Kiltlifter (their most popular brew.) I *can* find it in *some* liquor stores, but I may have to travel a lot further to buy it. This pushes Four Peaks revenue further down the pike because we chose to favor one style of business over another...NOT free market over regulated markets, but different kinds of markets.
Markets are not created the same. There are notoriously policies that favor one kind of "free market" over another. Money is not a great equalizer. It can be a great homogenizer, though, and that's what worries me.
I find it kind of interesting that you consider it "liquor law weirdness" when the majority of states have almost identical laws to Colorado. When I hear "weirdness" or "strangeness" I usually think of something that is not the norm. Just sayin.
Personally I tend to be against the idea of grocery stores selling liquor for the simple reason that they are "grocery" stores, and having a large selection of alcoholic beverages, just takes a lot of valuable shelve space away from "groceries". Which is the thing that I usually go to a grocery store for.
I really don't see why if you need a bottle of wine with your dinner, it should be so hard for you to stop off a liquor store on the way home. Then there is the situation that if the state starts allowing chains to selling alcohol, that going to put a lot of small businesses out of business.
Point taken. I guess I was previously under the mistaken impression that Colorado's blue laws were unusual. I know that the West Coast and Southwest states that I'm familiar with are permissive when it comes to grocery store liquor sales. I assumed that east coast states were equally permissive, but that turns out not to be the case.
As for the idea that grocery store sales will put small businesses out of business -- I just don't have enough information to know if that's true or not. It would be interesting to see if that has happened in western states like WA, OR, CA, MT, ID, NV, AZ, NM which allow grocery store liquor sales.
It would be interesting to see if that has happened in western states like WA, OR, CA, MT, ID, NV, AZ, NM which allow grocery store liquor sales.
Where do you get your info from? ID, MT, OR, and WA are alcoholic beverage control states. Meaning liquor is only sold in state operated liquor stores. Not in grocery stores.
Yes, I've come to realize that many states back east have the same liquor law wierdness that we do. Maryland is another state that has virtually identical liquor laws to Colorado, but that hasn't stopped TJ's. As mentioned, PA and NJ are the same. Even NY has liquor law strangeness that hampers trader Joe's from selling wine (kind of counterintuitive, but true).
I think that the main problem for Denver is distribution. It's a great market, but TJ's will have to set up brand new distribution channels that will really only be able to serve the Colorado Front Range. We're too far away from other markets like Salt Lake City and New Mexico to share distribution channels. This is the same thing that has so far kept In-n-Out and other west coast chains away.
Nevertheless, they appear to be coming and have finally decided that Denver is worth the effort.
They recently opened a distribution center in Ft. Worth, so maybe that one will serve the Front Range.
Ahhh, but you're number 3 really brings home the point. Selection.
I've lived in several places, and frankly Colorado has some of the best liquor stores I've come across. Price is definitely a factor here (I have not found liquor to be significantly cheaper in Arizona or California), but SELECTION is a vast difference. Particularly in a state that prides itself on it's microbrews and other "boutique" alcoholic beverages.
You are absolutely correct on this point!
When I first moved to Arizona I thought it was the greatest thing that the grocery stores sold more than (3.2) beer. There were times I would get frustrated because they didn't have an item I wanted, but more often than not I could find something close enough.
Fast forward several years and while I appreciate the convenience, I am really starting to hate the lack of selection. The big micro-brews (is that an oxymoron?) are represented, but even the local brands have no more than 2 or 3 selections for sale; I cannot imagine how frustrating that would be with all of the local brands Colorado has.
I am a fan of rye and I typically can only find one brand, Jim Beam, which I don't really care for. I can find a lot of the big name brand wines, but when I am looking for something I enjoyed at a restaurant or just to talk to a knowledgeable employee who can give me a suggestion for something new to try I am SOL.
We have a few of the mega-stores now so the selection issue is (partly) resolved, but the convenience factor is way down - the nearest one it 20 minutes away.
IIRC, most grocery stores in Denver had a liquor store next door. While the selection wasn't always huge, it was better than what I can get in the super markets down here.
Moderator speaking: Sorry folks, but had to delete a bunch of threads that veered way off topic. Let's all stick to TJs.
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I just got back from a 1 week unplanned visit to CA to help out a sick family member and returned with several cases of Trader Joe's gluten free corn pastas that are priced at $1.39 each 16 oz. package of penne, fusilli, & spaghetti. This stuff beats any other GF pastas and tastes like good 'ole semolina and is probably 70% cheaper than any of the other GF pastas out there. It's incredible values like this that turn many into passionate followers of TJ's. The manager at the Huntington Beach store also mentioned that TJ's has a revised expansion plan that will find new stores in all lower-48 within the next three years. Great news if you're a T-disciple!
I just got back from a 1 week unplanned visit to CA to help out a sick family member and returned with several cases of Trader Joe's gluten free corn pastas that are priced at $1.39 each 16 oz. package of penne, fusilli, & spaghetti.
I tend to think about the sauce more than the pasta, but you are right, their pasta is great! I don't worry about gluten free personally so I can't comment on it, but we love the whole wheat pasta. I think it's about $1.20 and tastes better (with a better texture too) than the national brands.
It's starting to look like we won't be actively looking to move back to Denver until spring/summer of '13 so the TJ's will be open and hopefully a couple more will be on the way - that's just one less thing we have to worry about.
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When I hear "weirdness" or "strangeness" I usually think of something that is not the norm.
Just sayin.
