Denver: The good, the bad and the ugly (Wheat Ridge, Louisville: loan, hotel)

[EastSideMKE]

Originally Posted by steveindenver

Except that most of the areas he mentioned are entirely walkable, Two of which are nationally credited for as much.

I think you're the one who needs to look at a map. Stapleton extends all the way to Commerce City and Rocky Mountain Arsenal Nat'l Refuge. Just because the new urbanist community is designed to be walkable doesn't mean the preexisting neighborhood is too. As for Lowry, it is still mostly vacant dirt lots.

[steveindenver]

I think you're the one who needs to look at a map. Stapleton extends all the way to Commerce City and Rocky Mountain Arsenal Nat'l Refuge. Just because the new urbanist community is designed to be walkable doesn't mean the preexisting neighborhood is too. As for Lowry, it is still mostly vacant dirt lots.

The Stapleton area might, the development does not. Again. refer to a map. Bike lanes, Bike paths, Jogging paths -- they all exist. The plan calls for and currently supports a walkable and bikeable neighborhood. The same can be said for the homes in Lowry.

Next time, get out the map. Better yet, visit the areas you write about before you write without knowledge (and that extends well beyond your ignorance of Stapleton and Lowry). The point of this forum is to provide informed information.

[Osito]

Originally Posted by Katiana

This is the second time you have mentioned uneducated, "trashy" people. (I personally hate that term.) I just don't get where you get your perception. Here are the stats for Denver's educational level from City Data:

For population 25 years and over in Denver

High school or higher: 78.9%
Bachelor's degree or higher: 34.5%
Graduate or professional degree: 12.4%

For the US (from the census bureau):

High school or higher: 80.4%
Bachelor's or higher: 24.4%

So Denver, the city, is very similar for high school and almost 50% higher for bachelor's degree or higher.

Hello, I just feel compelled to reply. I agree with the statement that a lot of people who ride the bus are that way. Most people who drive are probably not like that. But anybody who rides public transportation in this city sees a lot, lol.

Compared to south Florida, I believe people here are actually much more professional IMO, but that's just me.

[MantaRay]

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

That's only if you live in the Central part of the city like Capitol Hill, LoDo, Highlands, Five Points, etc. There's huge sections of the city-county that are extremely unfriendly to pedestrians. Hampden, Southmoor, Kennedy, Bear Valley, Stapleton, Montbello, Green Valley Ranch, Lowry, Indian Creek, and the huge industrial corridor that runs alongside Santa Fe Dr, I-25, and the Central Platte Valley are all examples of unwalkable neighborhoods in the city-county of Denver.

I'll pick Stapleton out of that list and say that I've walked the Stapleton paths and sidewalks, and it is not unfriendly to pedestrians. I've walked E29th from the retail area all the way to Westerly Creek Park. I've walked MLK Blvd. in the vicinity of Central Park. I've walked along the Greenway Park corridor. And although I haven't walked it, the Sand Creek Greenway runs through the northern part of the Stapleton current development and from it you can get to the myriad of other Denver trails, even go all the way downtown.

And I already gave the example of homes within a 2 mile radius of Southlands Shopping Center. That's not the central part of the city, yet you can bike from there to the shopping center, to Cherry Creek Lake, to Cherry Creek North, and to downtown as I said before.

My point is that the evidence runs counter to what you claim here. Anybody can see that with the aerial view on msn maps. But I actually have seen the evidence first hand, as have many others.

[movementarian]

Originally Posted by FunkyMonk

The ugly:
I gotta be honest. Denver has a lot of rough, uneducated, trashy people. I'm sorry, no offense, but it's just true. If you ride the bus you know what i'm talking about. Sometimes I just can't believe how crude and fried some people are around here. It makes me drop my jaw in disbelief very often. Lot's of stereoptypical, 90's style gangster people and lots of trailer trash. No offense to people who live in trailers, I lived in one for a few years myself
The ugliness of the suburban sprawl. I would rather have a denser city, with more open space and nature, instead of endless sprawling concrete and buildings spread out with so much wasted space. And this sprawl causes a lot of other issues too.

Regarding suburban sprawl - I know everyone complains about it, but everyone seems to want a ranch home and acres of land or at least a big front yard and back yard (maybe some land for horses...). When homes have small yards and are close together, people complain that they wouldn't move to such a place. I find it weird and maybe a little selfish that so many people want to sprawl their own land out but don't want anyone else to.

And as far as the bus, yeah, I ride it a lot and am rough, uneducated, definately trashy, and gangsta also. Thug Life!

[katysalsa]

Originally Posted by movementarian

Regarding suburban sprawl - I know everyone complains about it, but everyone seems to want a ranch home and acres of land or at least a big front yard and back yard (maybe some land for horses...). When homes have small yards and are close together, people complain that they wouldn't move to such a place. I find it weird and maybe a little selfish that so many people want to sprawl their own land out but don't want anyone else to.

And as far as the bus, yeah, I ride it a lot and am rough, uneducated, definately trashy, and gangsta also. Thug Life!

I couldn't agree more with you movementarian. I live in Wash Park so I'm not around all this "urban sprawl" that people keep talking about, but I moved from Phoenix, so I'm definitely used to it. It seems like a weird thing to complain about. If you don't like that way of living, than move into the city, if you don't want a small house or the things associated with city living, than move!

Oh, and Thug Life!

[katysalsa]

One other thing to note. Everyone's opinion of "walkable" is very very different. We live about 3-4 blocks from a Safeway and walk alot to get groceries. However, when my dad came to visit, he wanted to drive to Safeway! You can almost see it from our front door, yet he wanted to drive. I know some people, myself included, don't always want to walk or bike everywhere, but I think as a whole, people define walkability as "is the coffee shop next door?". In many cases, if it requires people to walk more than a couple blocks, it's a no go.

[Katarina Witt]

Yet another point about walkable: Are we talking about walkable to downtown Denver, or walkable to shops and restaurants in one's neighborhood? Obviously, very few are going to live within walking distance of downtown, but many can live within walking distance of a grocery store, cafe, park, etc.

[FunkyMonk]

Some of you all have very different perspectives on this than I do. For me, the nearest grocery shopping is about 4 miles away. Doing it on foot is almost impossible. I am surrounded by houses and apartments for blocks on all sides. And I am in Denver.
Before Denver I lived in dense, urban cities and small towns mostly. I'm not used to this sprawled metropolis yet. I don't like it. It offers the concrete jungle of the city, without the convienence, street life or excitement.
When I first came to Denver I was absolutely blown away by how sprawled it is and how wide open the streets are. This place felt like a small town to me, not a city. Before coming to Denver I was used to walking the streets and constantly having other people around me. People walking, people talking, people going to do things on foot or on bike etc.
But here in Denver, I can just walk for hours and only run into a few other people sometimes. When I first came here this was an oddity, I felt a ghosttown sort of vibe like sidewalks here just aren't even used, but now that i've lived here for months, it feels more normal.
You just get used to certain things and don't realize they are unusual until you see a different way sometimes.
The worst thing about the sprawl in Denver is it's side effects. Since people drive everywhere, there isn't really any street life or vibe on the streets outside of the city core. A walk in the city can just be very boring here. It makes the city car-dependent. When people find out I don't have a car they look at me like i'm insane. And lots of people refuse to take public transportation because they think it's too dangerous. And I can see why, there are a lot of creeps on it.
If you live in Denver you had better have a car, because you will be spending a lot of time in it.

[FunkyMonk]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Yet another point about walkable: Are we talking about walkable to downtown Denver, or walkable to shops and restaurants in one's neighborhood? Obviously, very few are going to live within walking distance of downtown, but many can live within walking distance of a grocery store, cafe, park, etc.

I lived in 14 different places and Denver is the LEAST walkable of them all.