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Old 02-23-2011, 07:26 PM
 
Location: Northern Virginia
4,489 posts, read 10,947,289 times
Reputation: 3699

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
It's not so much grading harder as it is teaching deeper and expecting more out of my high performers. Because I can ask more of my students, I think I should. I also teach chemistry and it just is harder.
I think in an ideal world, you'd challenge them and push them and encourage them to go deeper without simply giving them a harder test. Give them meaningful, in depth, interdisciplinary projects (I know, waaaaaaay easier said than done). Find a way to motivate them to learn on their own and apply the concepts themselves.

My math class (middle school) takes the same exams every middle school student in the county takes. Good school or bad school, you take the same test. That way an A at each school theoretically means the same thing--you know the curriculum backwards and forwards. Then in the schools/classes that are capable of it, they go beyond in other ways. Our class built and launched rockets last month to study basic trig and angle relationships. They had a project to turn in about it, but they weren't tested on it, since it's not required knowledge in the county. It would make no sense to me to penalize them for being at a school with smarter kids.

Since you're the only chem teacher at your school, do you have any interaction with chem teachers at nearby schools? I know the German teacher at my campus has weekly meetings with the German teacher at the neighboring middle school to make sure they're progressing at a similar rate/level.
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Old 02-23-2011, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,546,439 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliTerp07 View Post
I think in an ideal world, you'd challenge them and push them and encourage them to go deeper without simply giving them a harder test. Give them meaningful, in depth, interdisciplinary projects (I know, waaaaaaay easier said than done). Find a way to motivate them to learn on their own and apply the concepts themselves.

My math class (middle school) takes the same exams every middle school student in the county takes. Good school or bad school, you take the same test. That way an A at each school theoretically means the same thing--you know the curriculum backwards and forwards. Then in the schools/classes that are capable of it, they go beyond in other ways. Our class built and launched rockets last month to study basic trig and angle relationships. They had a project to turn in about it, but they weren't tested on it, since it's not required knowledge in the county. It would make no sense to me to penalize them for being at a school with smarter kids.

Since you're the only chem teacher at your school, do you have any interaction with chem teachers at nearby schools? I know the German teacher at my campus has weekly meetings with the German teacher at the neighboring middle school to make sure they're progressing at a similar rate/level.
What world are you living in? In my world, teenagers do what they have to to get the grade. If I don't make it harder to get an A, they won't do more for me. They'll spend their time on other persuits like, getting the A in another class or texting friends.

This is pie in the sky. It's a rare teenager who is motivated to learn for learning's sake. Most of my kids, including my A students, want something for their work. Namely, an A. They don't want more work but they will do more work if I demand it for that A.

I find that my kids aren't penalized for being at a school with smarter kids. Two things that struck me when I took this job was the level of math my students can handle and the amount of subject matter material they already knew before they set foot in my class. In my old school, I had to spend 6 weeks reviewing what they should have learned in physical chemistry and go very slowly through the math intensives sections of chemistry. I don't here.

These kids aren't at a disadvantage. If anything, they're at an advantage. So I think raising the bar for an A is warranted. Now the bar for passing stays where it was. Minimal knowledge is minimal knowledge.
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Old 02-23-2011, 07:39 PM
 
Location: SE Florida
1,194 posts, read 4,127,679 times
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I had a few college professors that told the class on day 1 they do not give an A. A student can receive a B+ but nothing more....Perfect papers were given a B+....

Then there was a woman professor who graduated from Stanford and told us there is no one in the univiersity as smart as she is smart......Most of us received a B and some failed...

When a student receives any grade, I believe the grade is highly subjective regardless if the student does a fine job according to the syllabus.
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Old 02-23-2011, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,546,439 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportsgeek20 View Post
A grade should be a measure of how good a student is, not how he compares to his classmates; what you are proposing is much like the old system we had here in Sweden back in the 1950s.

My opinion is that:
If you have 146/146 students who perform an A, they should get an A.
If you have 146/146 not passing a damn thing they should not receive any grade.

The grades you give a student has consequences. Why should a good student of a high-performing school be surpassed by an idiot from an easy area with higher grades?

The be frank I find your ideology idiotic, backward and subjectivity-reliant.
I've had teachers who were nearly 70 years old who had this kind of thinking. even if he would have had 30 nobel-price worth students, there wouldn't be more high grades, and a certain amount would have to fail regardless.
yes this is an extreme, but your way of thinking has about the same result.

A good student from Ohio should be able to show that he is better than a bad student from Canada or another one from Florida by showing his grades, without the person he's showing it to has any knowledge of the 3 schools. Otherwise what the heck is a grade worth?
A good student at a high performing school would not be surpassed by an idiot from an area with easy A's. Colleges know which schools are easy A's. It's pretty easy to cross reference grades to state college exams.

If I had 30 nobel-prize worthy students in my class, it would be insane to expect of them what I expect of a typical teenager . Of course, they wouldn't be in my class so this wouldn't be an issue.

You are missing the point of my question. BECAUSE my students walk into my class at an advantage, shouldn't an A really mean something? My average students would be top performers at my old high school. I couldn't dream of teaching as many topics as I will this year to the depth I will this year. I would have failed my entire class. They didn't have the background to handle it. My, current, students do. Are you really suggesting I should give them less education because they're a head of the game?
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Old 02-23-2011, 07:43 PM
 
Location: state of procrastination
3,485 posts, read 7,311,825 times
Reputation: 2913
That's what Stanford does. Nobody seems to mind.

You certainly can give everyone an A if they all scored 90% and above on a test. Why not? They all know their stuff. Conversely, don't hesitate to give all F's if everyone scored below satisfactory. I've never been a fan of a grading curve when everyone around you are geniuses and everyone scores very well. It can really ruin your GPA and your life.
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