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Old 01-05-2015, 01:13 PM
bg7
 
7,694 posts, read 10,566,007 times
Reputation: 15300

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Have you got any non-partisan analysis? I trust Salon and Kos as much as any sensible person trusts Fox. Avowed left wing and right wing sites aren't inclined to give you the truth, just to supply you with their dogma.

Let us know.
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Old 01-05-2015, 01:18 PM
bg7
 
7,694 posts, read 10,566,007 times
Reputation: 15300
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Yes, that is what they are doing.
Elementary years (K-5) are learning the 4 operations..pure foundation.
Middle school is where you start moving them from the concrete to the abstract.
That WAS the old way.

Now you have third graders being introduced to variables in equations when they still haven't fully learned all the multiplication tables.

Since the use of calculators rote learning of multiplication tables is.... not such an important skill. Like writing cursive nowadays.

Plus an average 7 - 8 yr old has no problem working out what "x" is if you say "7 plus another magic number equals 10,..... so what is the magic number?" Its fun for them to figure out.

Compared to rote learning - which one do you think is developing the kid more mathematically?



Really, math is still too slow for most kids in 2nd grade. No wonder they start to get bored early on.
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Old 01-05-2015, 01:22 PM
bg7
 
7,694 posts, read 10,566,007 times
Reputation: 15300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everdeen View Post
No and no. You are making my point for me.

What I prefer, is that someone who been highly trained in his or her field, with many years experience, a good track record, who keeps up with appropriate continuing education in his or her field, and maintains a high degree of professionalism to perform a procedure on me.

And you are not going to squirm out of this one. My home may be listed this fall. We have discussed it. Are you or are you not an expert in your field?



You are not reading. Go back to here.

To make it easy for the skimmers and the uninformed, I underlined my points. It's far more informative if you read the entire passage. Be forewarned: Testing is mentioned.




Who? Which ones?



Source?






Oh, there is a lot of "purported" information out there about the history and evolution of Common Core. The funny thing is that it also seems to be changing.

Again, what is your source?



Why keep it? Again, it is not the standards that were keeping our country's performance low on the international tests.

European nations, which are approximately the size of states in our country all seem to manage without a European Education Board calling the shots. It would be great to fun to watch Germany and France duke it out over the which standards should be included in the "European Common Core".

Each state has perfectly intelligent, educated people that can/did write standards.






Everything in education that the federal government has touched has turned to ash. There is no past precedent that strong enough to make me believe that there will be a change for the better. Especially by people who have/will never spend any meaningful time in a classroom.




Oh, dear. You really need to do your research before you start throwing her name around.




Wrong


So? That's like me substantiating my argument with, "Well, Louis CK is against it."
**********************************



If the test of whether to adopt CC is some teachers apparently support it, then, some teachers apparently support communism too (probably more than who support CC). Should we adopt that?

Quite honestly, when someone digs there heels in like you have, I have no hope of changing your mind. So all of this is moot.

No country in Western Europe has the same influence we have here resulting from religionists and extremists getting in the way of common sense to set the non-parochial educational agenda.....
Connecticut and New York would turn out fine. But many state's kids would end up at an even greater disadvantage than they do now.

Not comparable.
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Old 01-05-2015, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,519,997 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Since the use of calculators rote learning of multiplication tables is.... not such an important skill. Like writing cursive nowadays.

Plus an average 7 - 8 yr old has no problem working out what "x" is if you say "7 plus another magic number equals 10,..... so what is the magic number?" Its fun for them to figure out.

Compared to rote learning - which one do you think is developing the kid more mathematically?



Really, math is still too slow for most kids in 2nd grade. No wonder they start to get bored early on.
Well they aren't handing out calculators in 3rd grade quite yet.

We are not allowed to rephrase test questions. And the test questions aren't even phrased like that.
They are word problems and the third graders have to figure out what is the missing quantity and assign a variable to it.

I'm not working with "bored kids" but failing kids and I'm turning down schools that want me to come there to tutor.
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Old 01-05-2015, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Paradise
3,663 posts, read 5,677,361 times
Reputation: 4865
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
No country in Western Europe has the same influence we have here resulting from religionists and extremists getting in the way of common sense to set the non-parochial educational agenda.....
Connecticut and New York would turn out fine. But many state's kids would end up at an even greater disadvantage than they do now.

Not comparable.
The European Union is gathering strength. They have consolidated their money and, despite the spits and spats, it is highly unlikely that it will be dissolved. If the current trend continues, and I believe it will, I see the European Union, eventually, becoming a super power and all the negative aspects of consolidation.

New York might be fine if you remove NYC.

I don't know what Europe you have been to, but the one I have been in has many extreme beliefs. I'll specifically reference France, since that is where my family is and the country in which I am most familiar.

There is this religion over there, perhaps you've heard of it...Catholicism? It pretty much influences, well, everything. In every village, the largest building is usually the Catholic church and it is usually at the center of the village. I'm sure that there are other churches in that country, but I never saw any. If the local school were start pedagogy practices that conflicted with the dogma of the Catholic church, I think there might be some heads rolling. I'm not Catholic, but when I'm there, I extremely respectful.

And don't forget, Europe has it's own issues with extremists.

There are extremists and, then, there are extremists. Go ahead and go over to France and not speak the language. Especially outside of Paris. I dare you. (Most of them can speak English, btw).

Go ahead and try to name your child Tuesday.

Show up at the Fête de Bayonne in any color other than red and white. If you try this with my cousins, they will change your clothes. (Don't ask)

Pull up to a quaint little sidewalk cafe for a late lunch - around 3 ish. See how well that is received.

France, along with each country in Europe is small enough to have a well-defined national character. It's an awe inspiring force when they decide to make changes. They got on board with the green movement. Everyone has a garden and has a clothes line. And is proud of it. They value aesthetics. You never see a car up on blocks with weeds and debris.

Funny story: My son was in Germany. After a night of partying, he left the bar in the middle of the night with no traffic. He decided to cross the street against the light. The German people stopped him and scolded him. If he had just driven an hour into France, he would have been fine.

But no. Let's consolidate those countries and make them more like us. If it's good for us, it must be good for them.

One more point. Mississippi's standards were fine. Their performance on whatever testing metric you want to reference, was poor. We can say, "All students will master calculus by eighth grade." It matters not what you make the standards. It's just lipstick on a pig.

THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEMS IN AMERICAN EDUCATION WAS NOT THE WRITTEN STATE STANDARDS.

THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEMS IN AMERICAN EDUCATION WAS NOT THE WRITTEN STATE STANDARDS.

THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEMS IN AMERICAN EDUCATION WAS NOT THE WRITTEN STATE STANDARDS.

THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEMS IN AMERICAN EDUCATION IS NOT THE STANDARDS.

Last edited by Everdeen; 01-05-2015 at 02:51 PM..
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Old 01-05-2015, 02:54 PM
 
Location: Paradise
3,663 posts, read 5,677,361 times
Reputation: 4865
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Since the use of calculators rote learning of multiplication tables is.... not such an important skill.
Oh, my gawd. You did not just write this. On the internet. Where it will be forever.
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Old 01-05-2015, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,519,997 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everdeen View Post
Oh, my gawd. You did not just write this. On the internet. Where it will be forever.
Believe it or not I have heard this very thing come from parents.
Why there's a calculator built into every smartphone now so there's really no need to memorize math.
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Old 01-05-2015, 03:27 PM
 
Location: USA
805 posts, read 1,085,420 times
Reputation: 1433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delahanty View Post
I had no idea that teachers unions had so many conservatives in their ranks.

The things you learn on these boards!
I'm one of them. Given the choice, I would not be in a union either.
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Old 01-05-2015, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Paradise
3,663 posts, read 5,677,361 times
Reputation: 4865
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Believe it or not I have heard this very thing come from parents.
Why there's a calculator built into every smartphone now so there's really no need to memorize math.
I can't stand this anymore. I'm going over to the writing forum and start arguments about Oxford commas and split infinitives.

I'm also going to tell them we don't need to learn how to spell anymore now that we have spell check.

*stomps off in a huff and slams the door*
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Old 01-05-2015, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Paradise
3,663 posts, read 5,677,361 times
Reputation: 4865
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Have you got any non-partisan analysis? I trust Salon and Kos as much as any sensible person trusts Fox. Avowed left wing and right wing sites aren't inclined to give you the truth, just to supply you with their dogma.

Let us know.
Here you go:

Valerie Strauss - Liberal

No are news outlets that are non partisan anymore.

I'm really leaving now.
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