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Old 01-05-2015, 04:29 PM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,425 posts, read 60,608,674 times
Reputation: 61036

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Have you got any non-partisan analysis? I trust Salon and Kos as much as any sensible person trusts Fox. Avowed left wing and right wing sites aren't inclined to give you the truth, just to supply you with their dogma.

Let us know.

So you don't wish to read anything due to the source.

A note, Salon was any early booster of Rhee. That's why I chose it specifically.


I'm going out to ask my neighbor how to reform education now. He hasn't worked in 15 years and is drinking his evening 40 out of a paper bag. He just pissed himself, too. That's the education "experts", not teachers who actually have to make sense out of, and be evaluated by the results of, the dreck known as Common Core.

I'm glad I'm on terminal leave awaiting approval for my retirement. As it is, my certificate will be yanked and I'll be put on the state list of "Certificate Suspended For Cause" with the child molesters and embezzlers.
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Old 01-05-2015, 04:49 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,926,164 times
Reputation: 17478
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7 View Post
Have you got any non-partisan analysis? I trust Salon and Kos as much as any sensible person trusts Fox. Avowed left wing and right wing sites aren't inclined to give you the truth, just to supply you with their dogma.

Let us know.
Rhee's malfeasance is well-known in DC. Of course, they *cleared* her, but new information is coming to light.

Memo warns of rampant cheating in D.C. public schools

Quote:
The USA TODAY investigation found that, as far back as 2008, the Office of the State Superintendent of Education (OSSE), D.C.'s equivalent of a state education department, asked for an erasure analysis. Among the 96 schools flagged for wrong-to-right erasures were eight of the 10 campuses where Rhee handed out so-called TEAM awards "to recognize, reward and retain high-performing educators and support staff." In all, Rhee bestowed more than $1.5 million in bonuses based on increases in 2007 and 2008 test scores.
Book Club: Michelle Rhee Is The Face Of The Corporate Education Reform Movement

Quote:
Looking at NAEP scores, we know for certain that Rhee did not turn it into the highest-performing urban district in the United States. Its students still have low scores on the no-stakes federal assessment. It remains in the bottom group of urban districts along with Atlanta, Baltimore City, Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, Fresno, Los Angeles, Milwaukee, and Philadelphia (Atlanta is in the bottom tier in mathematics but not in reading).
Quote:
Did Rhee reduce the achievement gap between black and white students? No, the achievement gap between black and white students was unchanged from 2007, when she started, to 2011, after she departed.22 Washington, D.C., continues to have the largest black-white gap of any urban district tested by NAEP, because of the extremes of affluence (mostly white) and poverty (mostly black) in the district. The Hispanic-white gap in D.C. in both reading and math is almost as large as the black-white gap, and here, too, D.C. has the biggest gaps among the nation’s urban districts.
Massive Cheating Scandals Rock School Districts Nationwide
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Old 01-05-2015, 05:11 PM
 
3,281 posts, read 6,279,618 times
Reputation: 2416
Quote:
Originally Posted by prospectheightsresident View Post
Not all conservatives are against it, including Jeb Bush (Jindal was even initially for it). My main problem with it is that it presents to students a radical curriculum change without adequately preparing those students who went their entire educational careers under a different model. If common core was started at the earliest ages, and then phased in over time, I'd be more willing to accept it. But I've seen common core work, and it's radically different (and more challenging) than anything I've seen at that level.
I'm not conservative, so this is not my call to make, but I have heard some people who claim to be conservatives vehemently argue that Jeb Bush and even Jindal are not "conservative." FWIW a lot of what I've read from righties is that Bush is going to face a crapstorm in the primaries over Common Core.
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Old 01-05-2015, 07:11 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 15,807,980 times
Reputation: 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everdeen View Post
No and no. You are making my point for me.

What I prefer, is that someone who been highly trained in his or her field, with many years experience, a good track record, who keeps up with appropriate continuing education in his or her field, and maintains a high degree of professionalism to perform a procedure on me.

And you are not going to squirm out of this one. My home may be listed this fall. We have discussed it. Are you or are you not an expert in your field?
Of course I will claim expertise at marketing a home. I will even practice a little RE law. However if I write a clause for an unusual requirement or one of some complexity I will run it past a lawyer. I am very good but I don't know it all.


Quote:
You are not reading. Go back to here.

To make it easy for the skimmers and the uninformed, I underlined my points. It's far more informative if you read the entire passage. Be forewarned: Testing is mentioned.
OK Here are your underlined points...

Quote:
There is no nationwide standardization.

Teaching to a higher level. It's not happening.

Another reason I dislike CC is that it is ushering in a cookie cutter era for the education in a nation with over 350 million people who widely diverse needs


No critiquing allowed.

The problem we see in education has had little to do with the standards prior to CC.

It was not vetted by the states.
Which ones show the standard is no good? The cookie cutter? So it is OK in CA for 30 million who obviously all have the identical needs? Or it needs to be at th school level so we have at least some sort of community with common interests?




Quote:
Who? Which ones?



Source?






Oh, there is a lot of "purported" information out there about the history and evolution of Common Core. The funny thing is that it also seems to be changing.

Again, what is your source?
The 2005 survey of math standards by Fordham Institute would seem a good sourtce...

http://edex.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.c...s05FINAL_8.pdf

Quote:
Why keep it? Again, it is not the standards that were keeping our country's performance low on the international tests.

European nations, which are approximately the size of states in our country all seem to manage without a European Education Board calling the shots. It would be great to fun to watch Germany and France duke it out over the which standards should be included in the "European Common Core".

Each state has perfectly intelligent, educated people that can/did write standards.



Everything in education that the federal government has touched has turned to ash. There is no past precedent that strong enough to make me believe that there will be a change for the better. Especially by people who have/will never spend any meaningful time in a classroom.


Oh, dear. You really need to do your research before you start throwing her name around.



Wrong


So? That's like me substantiating my argument with, "Well, Louis CK is against it."
**********************************



If the test of whether to adopt CC is some teachers apparently support it, then, some teachers apparently support communism too (probably more than who support CC). Should we adopt that?

Quite honestly, when someone digs there heels in like you have, I have no hope of changing your mind. So all of this is moot.

What does matter to me, however, is whether or not you are an expert in your field?

(It's not so funny when it's not Scoop, is it?)
The Source is US News

The History of Common Core State Standards - US News

I marked what I was quoting clearly. I am not a Rhee fan either. Just happened to be in the quote.

And just take your search and remove the Union. Do Teachers support Common Core?. And you get things like this...

Recent Polls: Do Educators Support the Common Core? | Edutopia

Oh and did I ever tell you I taught Algebra in CCSD? Not very well though.
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Old 01-05-2015, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Paradise
3,663 posts, read 5,676,809 times
Reputation: 4865
So, are you more expert than me at selling real estate? If yes, has it anything to do with preparation and experience?
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Old 01-05-2015, 08:28 PM
 
12,850 posts, read 9,064,235 times
Reputation: 34940
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sommie789 View Post
There has to be some National standard.

Why?
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Old 01-05-2015, 08:54 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 15,807,980 times
Reputation: 5478
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everdeen View Post
So, are you more expert than me at selling real estate? If yes, has it anything to do with preparation and experience?
Probably. I have sold a few hundred houses and had a background that contributed to the technical end of real estate. I do however have a couple of clients who are probably better at RE than I am including a lady who has sold more RE than I will ever see. She uses me as a front so she does not have to do the grunt work.

And while I was a horrible teacher of Algebra it was not because I don't know the subject. I got killed because I don't have the basics of controlling a classroom down. I would have learned how to do that but quit the area because my physical condition makes it difficult for me to deal with a classroom.

I would think the question is whether or not the standard does what it is supposed to do. Provide a rational listing of what the schools should teach our children. If it does not we should fix it.

And even if it does we could still screw it all up by what we do with the standard. But that does not indcit the standard...but the protocol we follow to implement the learning.
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Old 01-05-2015, 09:22 PM
 
3,349 posts, read 2,849,012 times
Reputation: 2258
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Why?
There are certain things that need to be taught such as
Health
SexEd
Basic English ,Math and Science
History
Writing
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Old 01-06-2015, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Paradise
3,663 posts, read 5,676,809 times
Reputation: 4865
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Probably. I have sold a few hundred houses and had a background that contributed to the technical end of real estate. I do however have a couple of clients who are probably better at RE than I am including a lady who has sold more RE than I will ever see. She uses me as a front so she does not have to do the grunt work.

And while I was a horrible teacher of Algebra it was not because I don't know the subject. I got killed because I don't have the basics of controlling a classroom down. I would have learned how to do that but quit the area because my physical condition makes it difficult for me to deal with a classroom.

I would think the question is whether or not the standard does what it is supposed to do. Provide a rational listing of what the schools should teach our children. If it does not we should fix it.

And even if it does we could still screw it all up by what we do with the standard. But that does not indcit the standard...but the protocol we follow to implement the learning.
About once a month we have this, well, let's call it a discussion, on the merits - or lack thereof, of CC. I've always been the type to fight the good fight, but last night I realized that it is all for naught. I have no horse in this race since it is unlikely that I will ever be instructing mathematics again, and my own children have their educations.

I'm dealing with a populace that largely has no idea how to review literature (hint: it does not mean reading the jacket of a Tolstoy novel), reads drvoodoo.com which has convinced them that vaccines cause autism and the government is poisoning us via fluoridated water. At least I don't have to hear about the Trilateral Commission anymore.

I am done trying to convince others. By the time the long-term damage has undermined our education irrevocably, I will be gone or close to it. Hopefully, my own children will persevere since they will have received a solid education, valuable skills, and a strong work ethic, which will likely be rare commodities in the future.

So go ahead. Put your faith in this. The pendulum will swing and the next administration will "revamp and improve" it, and then the next, and so on and so forth.

It's a funny thing, though. You can be an expert in your field with preparation and experience, but I, and the others who have preparation and experience, cannot.

I wish all of who think that you know what education reform should look like would pick up a weapon and stand a post. And if you are unwilling, we would rather you just say thank you and be on your way.

~Col. Everdeen Jessup
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Old 01-06-2015, 08:20 AM
bg7
 
7,694 posts, read 10,564,763 times
Reputation: 15300
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
So you don't wish to read anything due to the source.

A note, Salon was any early booster of Rhee. That's why I chose it specifically.


I'm going out to ask my neighbor how to reform education now. He hasn't worked in 15 years and is drinking his evening 40 out of a paper bag. He just pissed himself, too. That's the education "experts", not teachers who actually have to make sense out of, and be evaluated by the results of, the dreck known as Common Core.

I'm glad I'm on terminal leave awaiting approval for my retirement. As it is, my certificate will be yanked and I'll be put on the state list of "Certificate Suspended For Cause" with the child molesters and embezzlers.

You sound a bit clownish and bitter.
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