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There's no difference between corporate interests and union interests as far as the children's interests go. To wit, neither are the children's interests.
Which one gets the best results?
As for "malfeasance" being "well-known" - simply a silly statement, because its entirely subjective ..... - is it any surprise you'll have people of a certain party registration claiming such and others claiming she is a demi-god? The truth, as always, is in between. She was a jolt in the arm of a moribund and chronically failing system.
And you sound a bit like my neighbor the education "expert" who just pissed himself.
Bitter? No. My terminal leave is health related so my retirement now is my choice. If I was a prick I could just use up all my sick leave (2 years worth) and not retire until then, making my system reserve my position for that time.
I am irritated that my system is one of two in the state allowed to suspend certification for retirements, thereby throwing me into the list with people who committed some sort of malfeasance.
If you think Rhee shook anything up in DC you need to look at her "results". Not what she's claimed. Which ties in with her veracity "issue". The criticism of her is bi-partisan.
Teacher unions want less work, more pay, and more freedom instead of common core.
This creates a strong alliance of people to oppose it.
I would like to see our school system become dramatically harder. Whip out the text books from eighty years ago and teach kids what the greatest generation learned. Plenty of people graduating college that couldn't pass the final exam for 8th grade math. We have had a pervasive system of setting weaker and weaker goals. If we want to get rid of the problems in our schools, we need to get kids to actually use their brains. If a few kids are incapable of processing that information, allow them to opt into a slower class. Don't hold the rest of society back to ensure the slowest kid can keep up.
Teacher unions want less work, more pay, and more freedom instead of common core.
This creates a strong alliance of people to oppose it.
I would like to see our school system become dramatically harder. Whip out the text books from eighty years ago and teach kids what the greatest generation learned. Plenty of people graduating college that couldn't pass the final exam for 8th grade math. We have had a pervasive system of setting weaker and weaker goals. If we want to get rid of the problems in our schools, we need to get kids to actually use their brains. If a few kids are incapable of processing that information, allow them to opt into a slower class. Don't hold the rest of society back to ensure the slowest kid can keep up.
I am a conservative teacher and I agree with most of what you posted. I want less work because I want to do my job better. I'm so bogged down in paper work and such that my teaching suffers. I would have no issue with common core IF it were well written AND we had students take common exit exams in all classes using common core. It makes no sense to hold me to a standard you don't hold my students to. I've said it before and I'll say it again the biggest problem in education is we do not hold our students accountable for learning. Hold me accountable for teaching but hold my students accountable for learning what I teach. Quit judging my performance by tests they have no vested interest in.
FTR, I think religion doesn't belong in school. While I do find the roots of my faith in science it's not my place to teach that. That's what Sunday school is for.
I still fail to get it. There seems to be this well known and wide spread resistance to common core but there is never a rationale.
There is clearly a set of people who know a lot about education who oppose it. But there appears to be as big a set who support it.
Coming from a life time of living off standards and helping develop them I find standards in general a good thing. It is how we keep the technical world bolted together. And when we screw up it makes life very difficult.
As I read through the literature I find arguments like it is a federal takeover even though it roots are clearly from the states. The thinking seems to be that if the Federal Government likes it then it must be bad.
The Fordham Institute appears to have been tracking the area of standards since the 90s. They appear to think it a pretty good standard though less than optimum. And they claim the state standards varied from quite good to awful in the pre common core period.
So what is it specifically that is wrong with common core? And why does the expert base differ so sharply on whether it is any good or not.
Teacher Unions appear opposed but Teachers do not appear to share that view. Why does the view of the Unions differ from the view of the members?
I find this whole argument incomprehensible. It is as if there is a set of secret publications by the two sides that they share only among themselves.
I have no idea who is right...but it is surely one of the weirder disputes of our time.
The interesting thing is most of those who get stuck with implementing standards hate the thing and curse those who wrote them. But the end user involved is very well served by the standard. I wonder if this is just another version of that?
What, exactly, is wrong with that approach? It's exactly how people do basic arithmetic in real life.
Yes, as adults. Are you unfamiliar with the stages of intellectual development?
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc
Looking at the history I have to strongly disagree with the thought that this is a Federal initiative.
In fact great care was taken to keep it out of Federal hands. There was a Federal role perhaps but a negative one. The NCLB basically incentiveized the states to adopt weakened standards. Very high goals in NCLB but you could get there easiest by dumbing down the standard. Otherwise though it was a State initiative. Sure there are some other players like Gates. What else do you do with multiple billions if not try and fix things?
The objections raised seem to deal primarily with implemention, particularly testing. I would think that a different issue. You still need a standard.
And I strongly differ that CT should have a different standard than NV. If there is more money perhaps I find no fault in CT enriching the basics. But the basics ought to be consistent. And they were probably closer before NCLB made it desirable to cheat.
So I would think if Common Core is not right we should fix Common Core. I expect what will happen is we will have a set of states deselect Common Core and then institute a standard that is at least 98% Common Core. Then we will have a gradually erosion of the standard as States try to look better without effort or spending money. And that is what is enabled
In point of fact, there is more similarity than difference in the standards of every state. Part of high schools' purpose is to prepare kids for college, though the idea of going to college sends a lot of people on this board into heart failure. But colleges pretty much all require the same high school courses of their students, so you're not going to find HUGE differences between the high schools in CT and NV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff
Let's reverse the question, what problem(s) is CC trying to solve? Does CC fix that problem(s)? Does it even apply to the problem(s)?
Let's say your car has a shake when you drive it. CC assumes the engine is bad and totally replaces the engine. But perhaps all it needed were new spark plugs. And, here's the catch, the real reason your car was shaking was it had a flat tire.
There you have it: CC is a bad implementation of a poor solution to the wrong problem.
Billy can read. See Billy read. Read, Billy, read.
Debbie can read. See Debbie read. Read, Debbie, read.
Johnny can't read. Why can't Johnny read? Johnny must feel bad because he can't read.
Let's make Johnny feel good.
It must be the school's fault. Bad schools, bad.
It must be the teacher's fault. Bad teachers, bad.
It must be societies fault. Bad society, bad.
No, Johnny can't read because Johnny doesn't care if he can read. His parents don't care if he can read. How does CC fix that problem?
(Substitute math, science, whatever your subject of choice. And, yes, I know there are some folks who have true disabilities. I'm not talking about them.)
I would like to see the bold answered. As to your "Why can't Johnny read?" scenario, on this board, it's ALWAYS the parents' fault.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sommie789
I am giving an example.
It is preferable that the example be reality based.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7
Since the use of calculators rote learning of multiplication tables is.... not such an important skill. Like writing cursive nowadays.
Plus an average 7 - 8 yr old has no problem working out what "x" is if you say "7 plus another magic number equals 10,..... so what is the magic number?" Its fun for them to figure out.
Compared to rote learning - which one do you think is developing the kid more mathematically?
Really, math is still too slow for most kids in 2nd grade. No wonder they start to get bored early on.
Seriously? I mean, seriously?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bg7
No country in Western Europe has the same influence we have here resulting from religionists and extremists getting in the way of common sense to set the non-parochial educational agenda.....
Connecticut and New York would turn out fine. But many state's kids would end up at an even greater disadvantage than they do now.
Not comparable.
Oh, for Pity's sake! Everdeen gave a good response to this, but, seriously? And why are CT and NY, states with high Catholic populations, such shining exemplars? The 5 most "Godless" cities in the US are:
Providence, RI/New Bedford, MA
Albany/Schenectady/Troy NY (OK, so maybe NY)
Boston MA/Manchester NH
San Francisco/Oakland/San Jose CA
Cedar Rapids/Waterloo IA (Iowa to you easterners who don't know your flyover states) And The Most Godless City in America Is...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sommie789
There are certain things that need to be taught such as
Health
SexEd
Basic English ,Math and Science
History
Writing
What makes you think there is any school in the US that is not teaching those topics. And frankly, I would not put health/sex ed at the top of the list.
What makes you think there is any school in the US that is not teaching those topics. And frankly, I would not put health/sex ed at the top of the list.[/quote]
It was not in order and those things should be the national standard for education.
I know a couple of people did not get taught Sex Ed at all.
There are certain things that need to be taught such as
Health
SexEd
Basic English ,Math and Science
History
Writing
Really? None of these are standards, they are merely names of subject areas. So why do we need national standards? What problem are you trying to fix?
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